From: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org (LuckyTown Digest) To: luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Subject: LuckyTown Digest V9 #23 Reply-To: luckytown@luckytown.org Sender: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Errors-To: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Precedence: bulk LuckyTown Digest Tuesday, June 25 2002 Volume 09 : Number 023 NOTE: Sale/trade posts should be emailed to luckytown-ads, *NOT* to luckytown. That includes tix wanted/tix grovels, post them to luckytown-ads, please. Contents: Mary and 'The Rising' ["Rich Kortz" ] "The Rising" [PJCAL66@aol.com] Bruce's last hurrah? ["Yan, Peter" ] Web site 'www.brucespringsteen.net' [luckyman@nic.fi] Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #21 [DuoStudio@aol.com] Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #21 [jsavage@concentric.net (Johnny Saulovich)] the rsising/carwash ["Massimiliano Barbato" ] Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #22 [JSchle9336@cs.com] Two Faces [mendez@comcast.net] No Reply / Loose Ends ["Tom Rickenbach" ] Bruce Tour prices [ZOOTV92@aol.com] The Rising guitar chords ["The Boss" ] That new song......... [OmanIV@aol.com] Live By Request [RichLab5353@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:07:06 -0400 From: "Rich Kortz" Subject: Mary and 'The Rising' I see you Mary in the garden In the garden of a thousand sighs There's holy pictures of our children Dancin' in a sky filled with light Seems Mary is no longer the dancing porch vision of 'Thunder Road,' or the sad-eyed soul from 'Racing' and 'The River'... she's now Mary the mother of God cradling the lost spirits from the WTC attack. Makes me wonder what 'Mary's Place' is really going to be about. Bruce's artistic journey with her as a metaphoric device has always been creative and powerful, but now it's heartbreaking, too. Rich Kortz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 03:34:43 EDT From: PJCAL66@aol.com Subject: "The Rising" Just a word or two on the new song - UNBELIEVABLE - That's one word - The sound is new but instantly recognized - The drums sound great - The background vocals great (Insert your own Beatle comment here - I don't think that's what Miami meant - I believe he meant the album has a musical theme) - Thank you Bruce and AOL for putting it on early - I am a teacher and love the summer to go slowwwwwwww but can't wait for the 30th - First time writer to the Digest but had to do it - Get on and listen for yourself - Waiting for the inevitable negative comments but I think they will be reaching - Made me think of what Lucky Town and Human Touch woulda been in the hands of the E. Streeters.... Promise Kept!!!! [text/html attachment deleted] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 14:52:31 -0400 From: "Yan, Peter" Subject: Bruce's last hurrah? Hello All, Just heard The Rising and chills went up and down my being. Producer Brendan O'Brien has, on this track anyway, married seamlessly the hooky-melody sythn line of Secret Garden with the roaring buzz slide guitar attack and pounding bass of Youngstown, the live version, with the beautiful CityofRuin gospel soul backup of Scialfa and company.... It is more intense without having to overproduce, Max shows his power and tasteful drum fills without repeating his BITUSA style... With the plans for the biggest marketing campaign since BITUSA...I think this is Bruce's last hurrah (not that I want it to be -- please don't flame me) ...an album that will put him again front and centre in the world of rock n roll AND pop music, where the E Street Band pushes the pretenders like Backstreet Boys off the pedestal... Yours PY ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 10:21:53 +0300 (EEST) From: luckyman@nic.fi Subject: Web site 'www.brucespringsteen.net' Hi people, Is anyone else just amazed/annoyed by the way that Bruce's official site www.brucespringsteen.net has been looks like/has been designed? I think it really seems like one of the most un-professional, disorganized web sites I've ever come across from a major (or even more smaller) recording artist. Just think of the pre-'The Rising' version: there was no biography or discography of the man available (still isn't). Agreed, the portion promoting the LINYC CD & DVD and the other DVD's was impressive, but that's about it. What about people who really want some info about Bruce, his records etc.? They just have to settle for amateur web sites I guess. Sony couldn't care less. Now, with the expected release of 'The Rising' the page has gone from bad to even worse. Just check the site yourselves (and I'm sure that most of you have): irrational sentences & images scattered all over with links and a press release. Just look at the couple of first paragraphs. It truly looks like someone's work, who has just created his/her first 'homepage'. Really, really unprofessional, disorganized. Bruce and his music deserve much more thoughtful and planned presentation on his OFFICIAL web site, for goodness sakes! The only thing what makes the page bearable are the (illogically inserted) updated news about the CD and the impressive images from the CD. But they are scans anyway, and have nothing to do with designing the site. It would be *very* interesting to find out who has designed this mess. Anyone know the company's name? Then again, it really looks like it could have been done by one of Bruce's kids ;) In that case, I rest my case. Greetings from Finland, Kalle Lehto ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 02:18:21 EDT From: DuoStudio@aol.com Subject: Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #21 In a message dated 6/21/02 1:46:52 AM, jsavage@concentric.net (Johnny Saulovich) writes: "What Van Zandt likely implies when he states "you'll hear traces of the Beatles' influence in the music" is that the new CD will present a unified and dynamic band emphasizing pop melody and, perhaps, significant harmonic vocal support. It also reflects an ambition that may be driving the upcoming album." I would never presume to declare opinions about upcoming music before I heard it as "fact," as something only you are privy to--but you seem to have no problem doing it... "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band was a *great album* in terms of cultural impact and influence, not necessarily the music. Trust me, we won't be hearing a "a new 'Sgt. Pepper.'" ...TWICE! "Comparing 1975's Born To Run to 1967's Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band is a ridiculous "apples and oranges" argument. They pull from different influences, eras, production values and songwriting styles." Geez, Johnny i thought I made it pretty clear that my tongue was planted firmly in cheek when i set up the whole thing by saying of Born to Run that, "I've always thought it "answered" Sgt. Pepper's hegemony in a tongue-and-cheek way..." "My Sweet Lord" is a 1970 George Harrison *solo* hit and "Good Day Sunshine" is a track from 1966's *Revolver*. Opps!" Maybe if you read my post a little closer you would've read, "it wasn't until last December's covers of "Something" & "My Sweet Lord" that Bruce actually covered a Beatles tune!" Well, Johnny, I guess we're both half-right and half-wrong 'cause "Something" sure IS a Beatles tune, and besides, I suppose I was thinking of "My Sweet Lord" more in the way Lennon went on record as saying that (and I'm paraphrasing) if you want to know what The Beatles last album WOULD have been, just sequence all the Beatles' 1970 solo albums together. And hey--it's still the first time Bruce would have covered a SOLO Beatle tune! And OK, you got me on the "Good Day Sunshine" gaffe; I mistook it for the TOTALLY different title, "Good Morning Good Morning." "Opps!" indeed! "The Beatles "'67 acendancy (sic) to pop-godhood" would be better placed in April, 1964, when they charted the top five (!) songs in Billboard's Pop Top 10 weekly charts." Johnny, I only was echoing the 1001st article/review/analysis of "Sgt.Pepper" that has discussed it in that way; yes, the 5-song dominance was a first, but it's part of the initial burst of Beatlemania--not the "Summer of Love" Beatles cultural quake that "Pepper" was the epicenter of. "Your dislike of "the quasi-effeminate sense I felt came from those Beatles-influenced high harmonies" and "drugged-out, effeminate hippies wearing scarves" betrays a bias that goes beyond musical merits." Now I feel like you're insinuating that i'm what, a homophobe? Again, I feel my use of the qualifiers "quasi-" and "sense" make my adjective of "effeminate" when applied to "Beatles-influenced high harmonies" a legitimate one, much like the way the Monty Python-bred "Rutles" spoofed the very same harmonies. Basically, I was trying to draw a difference between, say, Bruce's "la-la-la's" on a song like "Promised Land" (or the "li-li-li's" on "No Surrender" or the bg vocals during the sax break on "Thundercrack") versus any number of Beatles' (or Beatles-knockoffs') "la-la-la's"; I simply find that Bruce's and the Band's vocals skew more masculine, and the Beatles skew more "quasi-effeminate." So sue me! And yeah, I'd say that a lot of the mid-to-late 60's British mod/fop look that mutated over the years, through Jagger and Bowie and countless rock acts through the early-to-mid-70's, could be legitimately described as "drugged-out, effeminate hippies wearing scarves." That's why Bruce was such a breath of fresh air because he WAS the first "punk" (described by Landau in 1974 as such), eschewing that entire "drugged-out, effeminate hippies wearing scarves" look and returning to the 50's of black leather, t-shirt and sneakers, pre-Ramones/Patti Smith/Sex Pistols/etc. "And it doesn't quite jibe. Does this mean you eschew the falsetto work Bruce issued in recent years, like "Sad Eyes"?" No, I don't, because it's an unexpected vocal fillip that startles the listener--and I like anything Bruce does musically that surprises me. (And apropos of falsetto, I love Frankie Valli and the 4 Seasons--so where do I fit in now in your opinion, Johnny?) "And this must mean you find Steven's sartorial splendor repulsive, yes?" I find Steven's sartorial splendor repulsive--NO! Because he's the only one on stage like that, he's unique; again, I'm referring to an era when ENTIRE bands looked like that. It's been written the Beatles' singing "made those records what they were. John and Paul's vocals ... communicated urgency first and foremost. Regardless of lyrics, the singers ... blew away all that stood before them ... today, one hears a lovely, naked emotion in those early vocals, a refusal to kid around, cut the corners of feeling, and a will to say it all." I couldn't agree with you more Johnny--but look closely at the very words you quoted: "...those early vocals" are also the ones I love and referred to numerous times in my post--NOT the post-Pepper "Beatles-influenced high harmonies" that I don't really care for. --Arlen Schumer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:00:23 -0700 From: jsavage@concentric.net (Johnny Saulovich) Subject: Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #21 Arlen - We've corresponded in the past, I have no grudge against you. I simply found your argument lacked credibility for many reasons, which I fully articulated. In general, a bold treatise needs to be factually accurate or every point will be hollow. By the way, both CCR and the Band are better and earlier examples of "eschewing that entire "drugged-out, effeminate hippies wearing scarves" look. Additionally, Bruce didn't become the "punk" you describe until circa 1975, just about the time Patti Smith came to fore as a recording artist and after the Ramones (who began in 1974). Best, Johnny ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 11:36:10 +0200 From: "Massimiliano Barbato" Subject: the rsising/carwash i finally heard the single....finally we got back drums and base guitar ..but after the first listening i've got a strange idea on my mind: the rising reminds me someway the carwash(tracks)!!! i mean abot the rythm...not the words of course!!! and i already love it and i think it will be a big radio success. what do u think about it? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 00:59:06 -0700 From: jsavage@concentric.net (Johnny Saulovich) Subject: To Mr. Jones ... uh, Mendez At 12:11 AM 6/22/02, LuckyTown Digest wrote: >From: mendez@comcast.net >Subject: Dylan a hippie? > >Johnny, How can you criticize others for not understanding the subject matter >and then in the next sentence call Dylan a hippie. [ snip ] >Jon Mendez >Secaucus, NJ Jon - You must be a Dylan fan, as am I. If so, you cannot be unaware Bob has always possessed a wicked sense of humor, and much of Bob's best work is subtle. The term "hippie" was intended as sarcasm. Hope this helps! Johnny Albany, CA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 17:21:02 +0000 From: "F Mills" Subject: The Rising (real, not fake) on MP3 I found the real track (not a forgery) with one search of Lime Wire this morning. Sounds pretty fantastic by the way. Fred >>FYI, a scan of Gnutella and other peer-to-peer networks shows a lot of folks sharing MP3 files from The Rising. However, the MP3's are not Springsteen, but some other artist. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 13:39:28 EDT From: JSchle9336@cs.com Subject: Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #22 Bruce is not the New Dylan, Jakob is not really even that. Bruce is Bruce! If anything, Bruce is the new Neil Young Saying what is on his mind, or maybe saying nothing! Generously sharing what he will, wisely keeping private what is private! Doing anything he wants, playing whatever sort of music pleases him at that moment, building more than one great band, using them at will But Neil is still Neil, so we don't need a new Neil Young either! Or a new Bob Dylan! One Springsteen is just fine. [text/html attachment deleted] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 09:33:14 -0400 From: mendez@comcast.net Subject: Two Faces >So back to the Beatles...how about this for a thematic coupling: >Two Faces/I'm a Loser >Did he do it on purpose? Doubt it. Fun to speculate? Sure. Actually Bruce's "Two Faces" is practically a cover version of the Lou Christie song "Two Faces Have I" which charted as a Top Ten single in March of 1963. Rave On, Jon Mendez Secaucus, NJ [text/html attachment deleted] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 07:40:37 +0000 From: "Tom Rickenbach" Subject: No Reply / Loose Ends Regarding the discussion of the No Reply/Loose Ends connection: In that case I agree with John Rickenbach that the convergence was more in line with the "look, there are only so many notes on the friggin scale" argument, combined with Beatles songs being ingrained in the subconscious of everyone in western society under 65. In other cases though, Springsteen's "lifting" of verses, musical phrases, and songtitles is real and deliberate, and I would argue, artistically sound. Some songtitles in Springsteen's arsenal are borrowed, clearly on purpose: examples are Dancing in the Dark and All or Nothing at All (both old 40s standards). I think that this is in part paying homage to the pop tradition that he is part of, but also to connect to past themes from the pop music lineage and make them relevant to the present. It is I think a legitimate artistic endeavor to transplant verses, images and themes from past pop culture to the present. Although this can serve many purposes (like satire, revolution, irony), I think that this device is best used to reveal difficult truths about present culture. Recycling the past gives perspective on the present. This device works particularly well with pop music, because in our culture popular music is powerfully evocative of the zeitgeist of a given time. An example: when Springsteen sang "Mister, the day my number comes in, I ain't never gonna ride in no used car again" (Used Cars, 'Nebraska') in 1982, he connected the general frustrations and trials of early '80s working families to those of the Dust Bowl generation by using Woody Guthrie's voice, style and themes in a contemporary setting. The stylistic connection to Guthrie isn't necessarily conscious to the listener. Nevertheless, we might find ourselves thinking about how the hardships of early '80s working families might have been something like what their grandparents experienced in the early '30s, and we may further ask whether we've made much progress in 50 years, and if not, why, etc..... This kind of resonance gives us a powerful perspective on who we are today. This is one crucial function of art - to show us that where we have been can guide us to where we should be going. Tom Rickenbach _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 00:04:26 EDT From: ZOOTV92@aol.com Subject: Bruce Tour prices re: Dave DiCarlo's comment on ticket prices for the coming tour.... For the 1999-2000 E Street Tour, Bruce kept the top tier base price around $67.50 -- one of the lowest in the industry for an artist of his caliber at that time. As for U2, they kept the entire floor section in the $50 range for "All That You Can't Leave Behind" so the true fans could get close. The high-end prices are justified if you've ever seen a U2 concert in the '90s or '00s. This summer, Tom Petty refused to allow golden circle tix or prices to go above $75. George Paul [text/html attachment deleted] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 04:50:46 +0000 From: "The Boss" Subject: The Rising guitar chords Sounds like there is a baritone guitar starting the song. Figured it out when I heard the song clearly on the radio and not through the downloaded mp3 through my cheap computer speakers. A baritone guitar is tuned a fifth lower than an electric guitar. So if you strummed an E Chord it would sound like a B chord. The guitar solo though, I'm pretty sure, is a regular guitar, not sure if it is tuned differently. There may be guitars tuned to Eb and playing B and E verse chords, F#-E chorus, and G#m-E-B-F# solo. And/or there may be another guitar with a capo on the third fret playing C and G verse, D and C chorus, Em-C-G-D solo part. Pretty sure the baritone also has a capo on the third fret. If you don't have a baritone, you could tune your regular electric down one whole step. The main baritone part is played Fsus2 and C, with the capo at the third fret. I hope this chart comes out properly. Play one chord per measure (except 2nd and 4th line of bridge). The key to the the rhythm is to hammer on from the open strings to the fretted chord. This gets the sus2 and major 7 action happening. The G chord in the li li part adds a C/G first position hammer on chord. The Rising (baritone guitar part) song is in key of Bb Fsus2........................C Can't see nothin' in front of me Fsus2................................C can't see nothin' comin' up behind Fsus2..................................C I make my way through this darkness Fsus2................................................... C I can't feel nothin' but this chain that binds me Fsus2...................C Lost track of how far I've gone Fsus2..............................C How far I've gone how high I've climbed Fsus2...........................C On my back's a sixty pound stone Fsus2..........................C On my shoulder half mile of line Fsus2.................C Come on up for the risin' Fsus2..........................C Come on up lay your hands in mine Fsus2.......................C Come on up for the risin' Fsus2.........................C Come on up for the risin' tonight Left the house this morning Bells ringin' filled the air I was wearin' the cross of my callin' On wheels of fire I come rollin' down here Repeat chorus G......................F......................G ...............F Li li......li li.....li li...li li......... li li....li li....li li li li .........G....................F.....................G............... (Am) into solo Li li.....Li li....li li...li li li..li.........li li.... li li....li li li.....li Solo Am - F - C - G (2x) ........G..................Am There's spirits above an' behind me F.................... / C..........G / Faces gone black eyes burnin' bright G......................... Am May their precious blood bind me ........F.................. / C..... G / Lord as I stand before your fiery light G......................F......................G ...............F Li li......li li.....li li...li li......... li li....li li....li li li li .........G....................F.....................G............... .F (hold chord) Li li.....Li li....li li...li li li..li.........li li.... li li....li li li.....li and so on... _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 13:57:13 EDT From: OmanIV@aol.com Subject: That new song......... I'd like to say the new single has a good beat and I can dance to it, but I'd never know the words if I didn't have 'em in front of me. And the song lacks a personality, and doesn't seem quite finished. Probably needs a little of that old black magic that the Big Man does so well, and mebbe Madame Marie should have conjured up a little bit of something right there in her sink. Seems to be a bit of "My City in Ruins, Part 2", and he seems to be having some trouble rising above the muck. But he's thrown away more good songs than most people will ever start writing.. How can we ever forget those immortal words" "La la la laa la la la la la......" Didn't he say something almost exactly the same in another song.... :-( I'm spoiled; "Badlands" has inspired more times when I felt without hope than just about anything else on the planet. Loud and CLEAR. and 20 other songs....(at least) As Mr. Zimmerman would say, "And every one of them words rang true, like it was written just for me." Johnno in NJ, tangled up and blue. (Someone-who-does-not-like-Bruce, but otherwise a great human bean, said to me, "If I wanted to rise up, I'd buy a box of yeast." A bit extreme.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:36:42 EDT From: RichLab5353@aol.com Subject: Live By Request Hey fellow luckytowners, is anybody familiar with a show they run on the A & E (arts & entertainment) network called Live By Request? I've seen numerous performers on the show & I think it would be a great setting for bruce to perform & also promote the new album. The show usually runs 2 hours & the artist performs whatever the callers request ( old or new) you can also e-mail your requests. If you get a chance to watch it , I'm sure you'll agree that bruce would benefit from it. Has anybody seen it & what do you think??????? Rich ------------------------------ End of LuckyTown Digest V9 #23 ****************************** ********************************************************************* ** LuckyTown WWW URL ** The LuckyTown FAQ, back issues, web-based subscription/unsubscription, and many other things can be found on the LuckyTown WWW Page: http://www.luckytown.org ** LuckyTown mailing list addresses ** You can send email to go into the next LuckyTown Digest to: luckytown@luckytown.org You can send email to go into the next LuckyTown-Ads Digest to: luckytown-ads@luckytown.org Any questions for the list admin should be emailed to: owner-luckytown@luckytown.org To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@luckytown.org with message body: unsubscribe luckytown-digest To get further information on how to subscribe/unsubscribe/change your subscription address, as well as the other available commands, send email to majordomo@luckytown.org with message body: help ********************************************************************* The contents of this digest are not necessarily approved by the list admin.