From: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org (LuckyTown Digest) To: luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Subject: LuckyTown Digest V9 #29 Reply-To: luckytown@luckytown.org Sender: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Errors-To: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Precedence: bulk LuckyTown Digest Saturday, July 6 2002 Volume 09 : Number 029 NOTE: Sale/trade posts should be emailed to luckytown-ads, *NOT* to luckytown. That includes tix wanted/tix grovels, post them to luckytown-ads, please. Contents: Cleveland Plain Dealer article on 7/2 Listening Party ["Kusinski, John" <] More thoughts on The Rising. ["Magnus Lauglo" ] [none] [miketmaloney@attbi.com] 'The Rising' Cover Art ["Rich Kortz" ] Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #28 [DuoStudio@aol.com] Magnus' take on my take re: "The Rising." [Cheryl McIntosh ] In Sweden about "The Rising". ["Han Med roda mulen" ] Mark Erelli Thunder Road MP3 ["Ken Kidd" ] Oh, the irony ["Michael Lucke" ] Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #28 [Deb Murphy ] Rising 2 cents ["Curtis, Robert L. LT (NASWI)" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 07:43:40 -0400 From: "Kusinski, John" Subject: Cleveland Plain Dealer article on 7/2 Listening Party Greetings again from Sunny Cleveland, Ohio: There was a brief article about the 7/2 listening party at the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. The link is below -- I think they maintain the archive for 14 days (this appeared 7/4). http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/plaindealer/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/ht ml_standard.xsl?/base/entertainment/1025775090170090.xml I keep thinking about the songs I heard that night, anticipation building!! I seemed to recall an interview a while back in which Bruce said something to the effect that the main "message" or theme of Born To Run was captured in the line "I want to know if love is real." Clearly somewhere along the line over the last 27 years that question has been answered. The songs mature with the man. Now in The Rising it seems that love is the answer. It makes me think about how my life has changed, how I have changed, since 1975, when I was 17. The things that are real, the things that are important are so different now. Certain events drive that home, cause one to reflect. 9/11 did that. Personal events do that. And I believe, Bruce's music (and it seems particularly so of the new music coming out) does that. I think part of the appeal, part of the brilliance of his music is that it presents thoughts and feelings that weave in between the common experiences we all share, and the personal experiences we each have lived. "May your strength give us strength May your faith give us faith May your hope give us hope May your love give us love." John K. Cleveland, Ohio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 10:19:49 -0400 From: "Magnus Lauglo" Subject: More thoughts on The Rising. Hi all, It's great to see people's thoughts on The Rising. With the possible exception of American Skin, I can't think of a single song that has generated so much discussion here. Some more thoughts on the song. The title "The Rising" I think, is meant to have many meanings; the refusal to be knocked down, an ambition to rise above the worst things that life throws at you, perhaps even rising above the knee jerk reactions that some people had immediately following 9/11, in search of a far more balanced view of the situation. It could also refer to the rising of the souls of the dead, or the literal rising of the firemen and other rescue workers who, climbed up those towers, rising floor by floor. When I first heard the title, I just knew it was a terrific one, it has a big almost epic ring to it. "The Rising"; something going up, gathering speed, something unstopable, a great force. As for the whole celebratory feel of the song, with its infective "li li li li" chorus, I don't find it inappropriate or in any way tasteless at all. The way see the song, is that it is about a fireman inside the WTC who has realised that he will very probably die. He/she (are there firewomen?) has accepted this, and has resolved to get the job done no matter what the cost. The song is a celebration of the bravery of those who risked (and in many cases gave) their lives to save others. It is a celebration of life, and the music helps achieve the overall celebration of the song. Also, I don't think the song neccesarily tells us that the fireman dies. As Eric Douglas points out: >One of the incredible things about the lyrics of The Rising is >Bruce's >ability to evoke different images for different people. The >60 pound >stone, the garden of a thousand sighs, these can be >different things - >metaphorical half mile of line that ties us to our >past, for example. To me, the verse with all the religious imagery refers to the moment when someone thinks they are about to die. Being an atheist myself, I don't personally believe in the actual existance of angels or a "Mother Mary in a garden". But I am sure that many religious people see images of these kind of things right before they die. Being Christian himself, Bruce may have meant the song to be about a dying fireman who actually is seeing these things, however he has crafted his song (intentionally I think) so that it can also have make sense for those of his listeners who don't believe in all the Christian imagery. Eric Douglas wrote (and I'd agree with him): >I agree that Bruce intentionally evokes 9/11 in this song, but I > don't >necessarily think it is a song only about that. I guess I would paraphrase him by saying that Bruce intentionally evokes images of death and the afterlife in the song, but I don't necessarily think it has to be a song only about that. Most of the fireman who experienced the kind of thing the song describes did die, but some of them survived. I think this song is for all of them. Thanks for the listening party review folks, I can't wait for the album! cheers Magnus _________________________________________________________________ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 02:58:54 +0000 From: miketmaloney@attbi.com Subject: [none] This from John, >I don't "understand" the photo, though. Or why it includes an out-of-focus picture of Bruce. > I see the picture as representing the corporeal and the spiritual. You see the solid building behind Bruce. It seems strong, solid, structurally sound. You see the picture of Bruce, a wavering spirit. Perhaps conflicted about what is truly permanent in life. One minute things are going great and the next, the whole world and your view of it gets turned upside down. I kind of like the picture. It seems deep to me. Of course the vertical stripe of words would also represent some sort epiphany. Perhaps a moment in time when what seems right/good about the physical is in line with what is right/good about the spiritual. Just my thought anyway. Mike. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 12:22:55 -0400 From: "Rich Kortz" Subject: 'The Rising' Cover Art First impressions of 'The Rising' cover art.... The vertical orange type evokes a flaming tower, with the graphically disrupting 'Bruce Springsteen' type falling roughly where the plane hit. ...or maybe the designer accidentally turned the type sideways and thought it looked sorta cool. As for the ghostly hollow-eyed image of Bruce... his visage is literally stretched, torn and disintegrated as if caught in a tragic moment. ...or maybe the photographer accidentally over-exposed him, and thought it looked sorta cool. Rich Kortz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 02:36:22 EDT From: DuoStudio@aol.com Subject: Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #28 It's been interesting reading everyone's thoughts about "The Rising" and the other new material, and I'm glad that my post on my disappointment with the musicality of that song played a small part in provoking some thoughtful response. Well, I just heard "Lonesome Day" yesterday, and all I can say is, get your acetelyne torches ready, because I hate to report that it's another major musical disappointment. Again, the same pre-review disclaimers apply: it's only a first impression listening, it's only thru tinny computer speakers, and I'm not reviewing the lyrical content at all (LTDers are doing an excellent job of that!); just the music: the sound, the song construction, the vocals, the band. All were sadly lacking again. "Lonesome Day," just like "Code of Silence," "Further on Up the Road," and "The Rising," was the same uninspired crap, gussied up a little to make it seem like an "urgent" song. But the band was leaden throughout, playing the same musical fills and predictable changes (so where is Brendan O'Brien's "touch"? Is he just a dial-turning producer behind the glass this time around?). Bruce even sings the second "Lonesome Day" line in each pathetically earnest chorus with THE EXACT SAME INFLECTION EACH TIME, almost as if he recorded the vocal once and had it looped into the other choruses (which reminded me of Lennon's "Watching the Wheels," which, while it has its merits, always bugged me that Lennon sang each chorus EXACTLY the same, down to the most minor vocal fillip); not what I look for in true rock and roll singing, which is about passion, soul, power and...spontanaity! Not rote repetition, and certainly not what I expect from Bruce--even on a studio cut. Yeah, I liked his falsetto at the end, but it was too little, too late. After the song ended, I thought that a "better" version of this type of song was the "Waiting on the End of the World" outtake from the Greatest Hits sessions, which i feel is actually better--musically--than any of the 4 songs mentioned at the top of this piece. And again, I'm sure Bruce'll pump "Lonesome day" up live, and probably erase many of the criticisms I've just written about--but I'm getting tired of "forgiving" his sub-par studio material for the "promise" of better live versions... --Arlen Schumer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 11:32:53 +1000 From: Cheryl McIntosh Subject: Magnus' take on my take re: "The Rising." Magnus (and anyone else who cares), >especially in the first verse, I would be interested to hear what else >Cheryl >thinks it might be about? The possibilities as to what the first verse is about are endless. I prefer not to dissect Bruce's work, though, rather I look at the whole song as a piece of prose. But for your convenience I will dissect. The opening verses to Trapped, Badlands, (pardon my unhealthy obsession with Badlands!), My City of Ruin and on a lesser plane Jackson Cage and Streets of Philadelphia (if one didn't know what extended past the first verse) also have first verses pertaining directly to 9/11. While I think it is highly probable that indeed the song is about a person in 9/11 -- I'm still not entirely sold on it being a firefighter ... I think the 60 lb rock could be a metaphor for a kid -- until he says it's for the firefighters in a concert setting, I will not be convinced that it can't be about something else besides. I can't seem to find the *direct references* you can. Had he sung [something to the affect of] "My name is Jacob Ljork/I'm a firefighter for the State of New York/Life changed for me on September 11/'Twas the day I went to heaven ..." then there would be unequivocal evidence that there is NO QUESTION that it's about what you say it is EXCLUSIVELY. What else can the first verse be about, NOT in context with the rest of the song? Frankly, Magnus, there's a myriad of things. A man lugging his kid through the dark streets of any given location: "the chain that binds me" in this circumstance is a good thing An abseiler/climber getting to the top of where he's going only to discover that that's not really all that fulfilling or not even where he wanted to end up Or for that matter even my own life! Bruce sings to me and about me quite often. Originally I thought this was just a "me-ism" but it turns out lots of LuckyTowners share this notion. The chain that binds me is a body that doesn't function the way I'd like, the 60 pound stone is the pain that constantly persists in my "broken" body, the half mile of line is how much slack I have without another bout with major pain. On a superficial plane I can't see nothin' in front of me, [without my glasses!] can't see nothin' coming up from behind [because my head doesn't twist so good these days]! There are more things it could be about, but my usually vibrant imagination seems to have gone AWOL this morning! Anyway, it's refreshing to see that a few other people are braving the 9/11 restrictiveness and mentioning that it [The Rising] doesn't HAVE to be about what the consensus thinks it is. Cases in point (also from Digest #26) : From: Michael Maloney >Perhaps he is nudging us to think of our own communal spirit on a larger >level >than any specific event, such as 9/11. From: Jennifer Brindle >Remember, this is Bruce... and he never (well, almost never) writes literally. ... not that I can find any LITERAL reference to 9/11, that most other people seem to have screaming at them! Oh, and just to make a bad situation worse, I'm not entirely convinced that American Skin is EXCLUSIVELY about Diallo. Sure he was a MAJOR, MAJOR influence but I think the song speaks moreoverly about all "quasi-Americans" and the heinous way they're treated ... not just by the cops, either. Bruce's work is rarely not open to listener interpretation (bar some of the narratives, of course). That's his beauty and his primary asset, in my opinion, anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 10:10:04 +1000 From: Cheryl McIntosh Subject: Take a look around ya! OmanIV@aol.com said, in reference to the meaning of The Rising (LTD#27): >No one ever suggested that the Rising was abs. & exclu. about 9/11. or 911. Have you perused a LuckyTown Digest lately? Five in six missives are people DEFINITE that The Rising is SO TOTALLY about that firefighter. And the reviews (LTD#28) from the listening sessions do EVERYTHING to back this notion to the hilt! Magnus Lauglo said, "what else can the first verse be about?!" (I put one viable scenario out there, and two that kinda take the mickey, that post should precede this one ... if it made the cut!) In the opinion of most LuckyTowners this song is, indeed, absolutely and exclusively about a fire fighter in the World Trade Centre. The guy (MRWTRW@aol.com, also from LTD#27) who questioned whether my locale would've affected my take on Bruce's deliberate ambiguity, I can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure Bruce would be writing a songs for everybody, not just the Americans, to ponder and then enjoy. So, MRWTRW@aol.com, as I don't (and never will) live in the U.S. I can't say 100% for sure, but am almost certain that that song still wouldn't EXCLUSIVELY be about a dead fireman. It was refreshing to see that Esther Beck (ALSO LTD#27. Gee, that Digest was a gem, eh!) actually had the guts to actually question what it's REALLY all about ... once the superficialness of the "Oh, so obvious, fireman" reference is scraped away. "Bruce's lyrics are always open to the interpretation of the listener. You bring your own baggage to the hearing of any poem." THANK YOU Esther! You've said in two lines what I've struggled to say in two missives!! If Bruce had've wanted this song to be about the WTC tragedy, then that's what he would've written about. But, such is the nature of the beast, that he wouldn't do that. Maybe the ambiguity -- that some of us can appreciate - -- was a deliberate ploy to make us think? Maybe he knows that we dissect the bejesus out of everything he does, and he's put the challenge out there?! Now comes Lonesome Day. I wonder what we're gonna make that about. Let me guess ... um ... September 11?! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 10:57:50 +0200 From: "Han Med roda mulen" Subject: In Sweden about "The Rising". Hey guys... Uhm. I have never written a message here before, so this is my first (duh..). I'm from Sweden, you know that place Bruce loves ;), and over here Bruce is very big and during the shows the audience respect him very much. That's kind'a cool. :) It even went so far that Jon Landau himself said after a show back in '85 that "Bruce has only been this good on stage maybe 2,3 times before". So... I think Sweden is special for him, and of course Bruce is special to Sweden. But that wasn't the thing I wanted to tell you, the thing is that our most important music-reporter (or what to call it..), Per Bjurman, he has always had a great feeling for rock-music and he is one of us.. you know, one of them who thinks of Springsteen as Jesus and The E-Band as his blessed children. And he writes articles about music weekly and sort of let the readers understand the importance of music. And he talks about a lot of bands and blablabla. But whatever, after every article he has his "reasons to go nuts on music", sort of, you know. And lately he had the "Singles 1984-2001" with Jesus and Mary Chain, for example. And in the last one, he had the track "The rising", with Bruce Spring- steen and the E Street Band!! How cool is that? :) Also, he mentioned HIM and the new album when he did a summary over the best albums during the first half of 2002, and he said: "No classics yet, I'm afraid, but they'll come later when Springsteen himself releases new material." So we are not completely lost here in Sweden. :) Have a great summer! Jeez, only 5 days left until another big day. On the 8th the new album "Hard Candy" by Counting Crows is released and also the new song "Lonesome Day" is available, if I've understood my little singing birds correct. By the way, the Crows-album. I don't know if it's released on the 8th or the 9th in the U.S, so don't blame me if you go to the store and it isn't there. :) On July 30th Jesus is back. Let him bless us with the (you know this one...) power... and the glory... with the poweeeer... and the gloooryyy... with the misteryyy... with the majeeeestyyy... (silence..) WITH THE MINISTY OF ROCK'N'ROLL! See ya'll up the road. /Christoffer, 15 years old and music-freak. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 19:39:48 -0400 From: "Ken Kidd" Subject: Mark Erelli Thunder Road MP3 Let me interrupt the discussions of the meaning(s) of 'The Rising' to forward a note I got from a friend of mine. I downloaded the tune, and it's a solid (if unimpressive) version of Thunder Road. > One of my fave singer-songwriters is Mark Erelli. On his > website he puts out new MP3 file each month. Most of it is soundboard > recordings from some of his shows of non album tracks or cover tunes. > July's MP3 is "Thunder Road" by Bruce. > > http://www.markerelli.com/music.html > > It's down below the list of his recordings in the "Monthly MP3" section. As for 'The Rising', I agree that Bruce most likely wrote the song intending Sept. 11th imagry, but (as with almost all of Bruce's work) there is certainly room for different spins on it. Each listener brings their life experience to the table when listening. That's why Bruce's music is so powerful to me, and songs that I thought were about a certain thing 20 years ago, can look to be about something else now. Just my 2 cents, Ken [text/html attachment deleted] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 03:52:45 -0500 From: "Michael Lucke" Subject: Oh, the irony Two years ago New York City police officers were protesting the MSG concerts because of "41 Shots." Now there is a groundswell of excitement among them because Bruce is singing the praises of the heroic of the 9/11 rescue workers, as evidenced by the charity concert that Gary Tallent is helping to produce. I believe that now, as well as then, Bruce is being an omniscient observer and commentator in his own musical and poetic way. Interesting how perspectives change when subjects change from goats to heroes. [text/html attachment deleted] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 21:38:15 +0100 From: Deb Murphy Subject: Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #28 I'm sorry if anyone has already mentioned this, but has anyone read a book called Last Man Down by Richard 'Pitch' Picciotto ? I just got lent it today, read the intro on the bus on the way home from work and got mental and spinal pricks of identification with 'The Rising'. This book is written by a high ranking firefighter who was involved in and survived 9/11/01. And just in the intro he says that in the 70's it used to be customary to sound a sequence of 5 bells, 4 times in a row whenever a firefighter got killed in the course of action. I just wondered whether this might be yet another interpretation of the bells that the protagonist (if there is only one!) of this song sings about in verse 2. Is he hearing the death knell of his colleagues ? And at the end of the short intro I read it says this : 'May their spirits soar, and their legacies linger, and may their mention here stand for the bells that never rang in their honour' The book goes on to name every single fire fighter who died, all 343 of them. I just wonder whether this book was influential in Bruce's writing of this song. He sure does make 'their spirits soar'. Apologies for not paying copyright for the quotes but sure the author won't mind. Has anyone else read this book ? Any further thoughts ? Deb@ento.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 16:06:24 -0700 From: "Curtis, Robert L. LT (NASWI)" Subject: Rising 2 cents Greetings Tramps! Two things, GREAT discussions about the songs possible meanings! I re-listened to it a few times, I think it is clear...it is about a firefighter who is killed in the WTC. I like the analogy to Joe Roberts in the last LTDG. This is just another character in Bruce's story telling. Think many of you are looking too deeply into the meaning. Take a step back, it's a firefighter answering the call to go downtown. Can't see nothin' in front of me = smoke Can't see nothin' coming up behind = almost sad, he's the only one here I make my way through this darkness = smoke I can't feel nothing but this chain that binds me = chain could be his job, I mean, he's a fiefighter, a very dangerous profession! IT'S ALL HE KNOWS HOW TO DO! It's his chain, it's kinda scary. Lost track of how far I've gone How far I've gone, how high I've climbed On my back's a sixty pound stone On my shoulder a half mile of line = This part I think is obvious, his equipment, his climb up. Come on up for the rising Come on up, lay your hands in mine Come on up for the rising Come on up for the rising tonight This I think is talking about the journey towards death, may be literally too. Come on up these steps to your death. Take my hand, I'm here to try to save you and/or take you, lay your hands in mine. Left the house this morning Bells ringing filled the air Wearin' the cross of my calling On wheels of fire I come rollin' down here = The guy is going to work, answering an alarm bell, in the fire truck. The cross of his calling, definitely the maltese cross of the FF symbol. Bells? Could also be bells of warning, war, etc. There's spirits above and behind me Faces gone black, eyes burnin' bright May their precious blood bind me Lord, as I stand before your fiery light = This too is pretty obvious...spirits around him, black faces from smoke(?) or no soul left the body. Now he's one of them, in front of the Lord. I see you Mary in the garden In the garden of a thousand sighs There's holy pictures of our children Dancin' in a sky filled with light May I feel your arms around me May I feel your blood mix with mine A dream of life comes to me Like a catfish dancin' on the end of my line = A couple ways to interpret this one: it's the guy's wife, Burce is just using his old character Mary, don't think it is the same person, could very well be though. This could be the Mary he escaped with a long, long time ago. They grew up, had a family, now he's got a job. Pictures are his kids, he's dreaming, seeing visions...floating into the light kinda thing? He is obviously aware what is happening to him, and doesn't want to leave, a fish on the end of a line doesn't necessarily make it into the frying pan!! (Don't you guys watch the fishing channel?...kidding!) Sky of blackness and sorrow ( a dream of life) Sky of love, sky of tears (a dream of life) Sky of glory and sadness ( a dream of life) Sky of mercy, sky of fear ( a dream of life) Sky of memory and shadow ( a dream of life) Your burnin' wind fills my arms tonight Sky of longing and emptiness (a dream of life) Sky of fullness, sky of blessed life = So many things here...most obvious (blackness/sorrow/tears/love/sadness...think the glory thing is 1) he's dying a glorious death? He's giving his life so that others may live...it's his JOB! And probably the way ANY firefighter would prefer to go if they had a choice...trying to save another human being. Thats' what they're paid for and spend their lives training to do! 2) Glory is entering God's kingdom? Hey, if you believe in that sort of thing, they're in a better place than we are right now. All I can say now is WOW!!! He's done it again, people...he's done it again...I think this CD is going to knock our socks off!! I'm ready...I think... This train... Bob [text/html attachment deleted] ------------------------------ End of LuckyTown Digest V9 #29 ****************************** ********************************************************************* ** LuckyTown WWW URL ** The LuckyTown FAQ, back issues, web-based subscription/unsubscription, and many other things can be found on the LuckyTown WWW Page: http://www.luckytown.org ** LuckyTown mailing list addresses ** You can send email to go into the next LuckyTown Digest to: luckytown@luckytown.org You can send email to go into the next LuckyTown-Ads Digest to: luckytown-ads@luckytown.org Any questions for the list admin should be emailed to: owner-luckytown@luckytown.org To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@luckytown.org with message body: unsubscribe luckytown-digest To get further information on how to subscribe/unsubscribe/change your subscription address, as well as the other available commands, send email to majordomo@luckytown.org with message body: help ********************************************************************* The contents of this digest are not necessarily approved by the list admin.