From: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org (LuckyTown Digest) To: luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Subject: LuckyTown Digest V9 #30 Reply-To: luckytown@luckytown.org Sender: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Errors-To: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Precedence: bulk LuckyTown Digest Tuesday, July 9 2002 Volume 09 : Number 030 NOTE: Sale/trade posts should be emailed to luckytown-ads, *NOT* to luckytown. That includes tix wanted/tix grovels, post them to luckytown-ads, please. Contents: Bruce's musical simplicity ["Dr. Palasti Gabor" ] lonesome day lyrics [bernie moynihan ] Lonesome Day "live" sounding. ["campbell bryer" ] RE: LuckyTown Digest V9 #29 ["O'Hearn, Chris" ] Li, li, li... ["Justin Doherty" ] Re: the li li li's [JohnnyBilo@aol.com] Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #29 [kalle.lehto@nic.fi] Rising tension ["Eric Douglas" ] Lonesome Soul ["E W" ] Bruce, the Palace, & Madame Marie's in CNN story [jp ] '84 Boss bandwagon ["Peter Geissler" ] Dates...........Vegas [Tom Ross ] Grushecky/La Bamba/Bandiera @ the Pony 7/13 [NJBOB113@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 16:06:13 +0200 (DFT) From: "Dr. Palasti Gabor" Subject: Bruce's musical simplicity Dear Fellow Luckytowners, While I have not written here anything in the past 5-6 years or so, let me add just a few thoughts to one of the hot discussions going on here nowadays. But before I do that, may I just say how great it is that people with their extremely interesting postings have been keeping this forum a great and highly enjoyable friendly place for over ten years by now - thank you everyone. Sometimes I skip the issues for months or years, sometimes I get into them again and the recent discussion on the occasion of the new album and its songs has heated me up again. There has been some good discussion started mostly by Arlen and reconfirmed in Digest No. 29, of what to expect from the new album (and from Bruce's work in general) musically. IMO the observation of the songs being musically way too predictable, repeating the same very little number of harmonies, using musical common places such as overused chord progressions, rhytmically sticking too much to a very few traditional solutions is true. And while I have not heard anything from the new album except for the title song, I dare to make a prediction (I would even risk to bet on that) that if the new album is musically different from the earlier ones it will mostly be restricted to instrumentation. Something that Arlen seems to have confirmed for at least Lonesome Day in Digest No. 29. However, I do not at all think that the fact that from a musically technical point of view Bruce's music is not so colourful should be anything bad. The brief quotation from Bruce of ALewis (no name was given) in Digest No. 27 summed it up all: the musical construction of the songs is a conscious choice because it helps to get the message through to a wider public. That is something we must not forget: in my view Bruce is not a musician but a messanger over a musician. As he has stated on several occasions (the latest that comes into my mind is the Live in NYC video interview) there is a higher purpose and music is a means, it is a tool to realize that higher purpose. It has also been stated by him and by writers about him - what comes into mind is the MTV Bruce biography during the LT/HT tour - that the choices he made in his records had been very conscious for the sake of getting the message through since the Darkness album. In other words, the experiemntal tone of, say, The Wild..., or his time as being the fastest hand in Asbury Park belonged to the era of being a musician only for music and not so much for delivering the message. And there is nothing wrong with it. He found the harmonies, the chord sequences, the rhytms that he uses to work best in communicating the message and apperantly it does work very well. Perhaps a more complicated musical construction would drive the attention of people away from the content of the song. Or it would not reach to such a wide audience. On the other hand, even from a musical point of view the criticism that Bruce's music writing lacks challenge or that it is not experimental enough to be interesting may be false: in fact the contention to remain true to only a very few traditional, standard technical elements in writing the music over the years and yet remain authentic is a challenge. It may be the experiment itself: to try to be new in every song that he writes even if they are based on the same harmonies and rhytmical standards (maybe the keys and instrumentation is changed). In other words: the challenge is to try to reveal what manouvering place there is amongst the barriers of a few harmonies and chord sequences. And does it work? I would just quote Olli Pekka's comments on this take from Digest No. 27: "Bruce really knows how to make good melodies with just two chords. I don't know how he manages to write songs like this and still sound original." Finally, still from a musically technical point of view, Bruce's songs do renew in many aspects. The fact is that it is impossible to say what constitutes music, but a few elements may be identified: melody, chords and their progression, key, rhytm, instrumentation, etc. Some of these are standard for Bruce but some others do change to a more or lesser extent. On the other hand I must admit, since I myself play music, too, that I have also been through this feeling of disappointment with the lack of variations in Bruce's music. However, strangely enough, I have soon come to like those songs that I thought were disappointing from a musical point of view for the first listen. Just like to Arlen, to me the major such disappointment was Human Touch. I went home with the album, listened to it, and was absolutely disillusioned. I listened to the album and with some songs I was not able to listen to them all the song through. I was listening to the songs and I knew what was coming, there was no reason for me to listen till the end. I had my guitar in my hands, and I was just improvizing to most of the songs at large upon the first listening - that is the worst that can happen. I was so disappointed, that after this first listen I took the album back to the shop and exchanged it for Lucky Town (I was a student at that time and did not have enough money to buy both - I ought to have waited for a week or so before I could otherwise buy Lucky Town as well). Having listened to Human Touch, I had less expectations towards Lucky Town. And I was very pleasantly surprised, although Lucky Town is musically not a very complicated album either - even more, it is much more simple than Human Touch was. What was the difference then - why disappointed with one and surprised with the other? I think the reason was the lack of a bearable message with one and its existance on the other. In other words, the message justifies the music. From that time on I have tried not to separate the music from the rest of the song and give a musically technical value judgement of any given Bruce song simply because they go together. I know it is a musician's disease not to try to track down the chord sequence and the notes of any song upon first hearing and from this point of view Bruce's music may be disappointing. But it is very misleading to let yourself be influenced by this disappointment because you may well miss a lot of joy and excitement that the song as a whole gives. Finally, some earlier memories of how a purely musically technical approach may be wrong. I had a good friend, he is a guitar player for a living - he is a session musician. He mostly plays jazz, jazz-rock and hard rock. We grew up together. When in 1988 the Human Rights tour was over and its Rio de Janeiro closing night was aired also on Hungarian TV, I had asked this friend of mine, who had played the guitar for about 5 years by then, to watch it. I was very excited with it, it was a great concert, well, everyone knows what it was like. The next day, still being very enthusiastic, I asked this friend how he liked it. He looked at me laughing and with a bit of a scorn and said: "your favourite musician played only a C major for an hour and a half" and turned away. The same thing happened when I showed my first scores of a Bruce album (it was BitUSA) to another friend, a drummer. He looked at it and said that any beginning drummer could play it. And, looking back, did they miss a lot... Well, enough of that, thanks for the patience, Best regards to all, Greetings from Miskolc Town, Hungary - Gabor Palasti ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 08:42:56 EDT From: Lldurham@aol.com Subject: Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #29 There's no list I enjoy as much as this one. The differences of opinion are discussed in a smart, intriguing way and represent a depth of thinking which I find woefully lacking almost everywhere else. Reminds me of those fun years in graduate school. Bob quotes "The Rising": << There's spirits above and behind me Faces gone black, eyes burnin' bright May their precious blood bind me Lord, as I stand before your fiery light >> Okay, I really oughta stay out of this. I've not heard "The Rising" because I can't figure out how to make this computer play music except by CD. But I am interested in the discussion as it has evolved and it occurs to me that almost everyone is right. Sure, it is about 9/11, but, in true Bruce fashion. it's about all of us, and more, too. In my (confirmed non-believer) view, almost all of us died on 9/11 and have been reborn into a new world. We, too, stood before a fiery light, we, too, are now bound by that bloody sight. I exempt, of course, all those no longer really capable of feeling anything, and they are abundant in number, but are clearly not on this list. As to the "more" of it, I agree with whoever said that almost every song he's ever written has the feel of having been written about me, about my life, somehow (of course, whoever wrote that actually thought he was writing about his or her life, and I'm sorry to have to correct him/her on the point ). I have always stood in awe of Bruce's ability to connect my Kansas cornfields history with the New Jersey turnpike, but he managed to do just that. I think it is that ability which distinguishes genius from mere talent. And so it will likely be with "The Rising." There are faces above and behind us. The living and the dead. A song about a specific event and through that event, a song about "us" in the larger sense of the word. It's not for nothing that we are in (t)his "church." Leo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 07:53:20 -0400 From: Diane Subject: More on The Rising It sounds to me as if The Rising is specifically about a firefighter during 9/11, but, as in all great talespinning, Bruce's use of story, metaphor, and symbolism make it about something more universal, too. Literal description does not obliterate universality--it enhances it, because it makes it more tangible for the listener/reader. For me, the song evokes the tarot archetype of Judgement. The card imagery often shows individuals rising from the grave to ascend to something higher. I am just grateful that there's a new album with the E Street Band and new music to love. I don't care what he opens with in concert, I just care that there will be concerts, and I'll be thrilled to hear whatever comes out of his mouth. While I'm all for free speech, I have to say that some of the so-called fans here seem to think that they're entitled to choreograph what Bruce "should" do, and I wonder how they'd feel if someone speculated to such an extent on their lives with such obvious proprietary intent. I understand Bruce fixations (uncomfortably well, I may add), but I think identification to that extent borders on fanaticism. Diane http://www.tarotpassages.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 11:17:24 +0100 (BST) From: bernie moynihan Subject: lonesome day lyrics whilst all the talk has been about the rising lyrics there has been little mention of lonesome day. To me this song is about his country and the way it reacted to September 11 and is his way of saying don't over reacted. Think before you start something that escalates. "Better ask questions before you shoot" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 08:53:00 -0400 From: "campbell bryer" Subject: Lonesome Day "live" sounding. Hi there! Just heard 'Lonesome Day", and I must say I completely disagree with the person who described it as "uninspired crap". I think this song may be the closest thing we've heard from Bruce that resembles his live peformance that he is so well known for. Take another listen and see for yourself. From the repeated "it's alright! it's alright, yeah!", to the multiple background vocals. If you tossed in some fan cheering and clapping this would sound like that live performance we all know so well. I'm very interested to see how others feel about this. And another thing, despite this familiar 'live' sound, Lonesome Day has that 'different' sound that Bruce was refering to. When I first heard the opening strings I was sure that I had downloaded the wrong song, but that Drum kicks in and I knew I was listening to something truly 'new' from Springsteen. As far as Bruce fans go I'm quite young at 28, but I've been listening to his music for 16 of those years and this is the most excited I've been during that time. By the way, I live in Toronto and if anybody knows an easier way to get into that Little Steven event at the Hard Rock Cafe, let me know! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:41:53 +0100 From: "O'Hearn, Chris" Subject: RE: LuckyTown Digest V9 #29 Hi I attended a listening party for the new album in Sydney last Thursday night and was astounded. The band and Bruce have never sounded better. 'Mary's Place' is across between 'Rosalita' \ 'Out In The Streets' \ 'Sherry Darling' and i think may well replace 'Tenth Av Freeze-out' as the band intro song. 'Missing You' was fantastic as was 'Worlds Apart' & 'Lonesome Day'. Bottom line is your going to love it ! I did ask about the video for 'The Rising' and was told that it won't be ready until the last week of July or the 1st week of August. Cheers, Chris. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 10:23:19 -0500 From: "Justin Doherty" Subject: Li, li, li... Regarding the "li, li, li" issue with The Rising, I think it's interesting to note the presence of the "li, li, li's" in another of Bruce's most poignant songs: "Streets of Philadelphia." I can't say I know the meaning, but in a strange way it seems to work for me in both The Rising and SOP. The repetition seems to contribute musically in some way maybe to the resignation that the character in each song has about their own mortality. Justin in Madison ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 19:39:39 -0400 From: JohnnyBilo@aol.com Subject: Re: the li li li's Anyone ever listen to an Irish folk song? Happy or sad? Li li li's all over the place. The majority of the NYFD is Irish. They fit beautifully. David in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:18:11 +0300 (EEST) From: kalle.lehto@nic.fi Subject: Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #29 Dear fellow Luckytowners & "Christoffer", > It even went so far that Jon Landau himself said after a show back > in '85 that "Bruce has only been this good on stage maybe 2,3 times > before". Wow! Really! So it was better than those '78 gigs, the whole '80-'81 tour maybe, the first leg of the BITUSA tour ?? That's quite impressive! ;) Dear Christoffer, please check your sources on that one. > most important music-reporter (or what to call it..), Per Bjurman, he > has always had a great feeling for rock-music and he is one of us.. > you know, one of them who thinks of Springsteen as Jesus and The E-Band > as his blessed children. I, for one, do not feel that Bruce would be Jesus and the E Street his children. Please, do not stereotype. Actually, I would be amazed if there was *one* person (besides you) on this list that really thinks that. > And lately he had the "Singles > 1984-2001" with Jesus and Mary Chain, for example. > And in the last one, he had the track "The rising", with Bruce Spring- > steen and the E Street Band!! How cool is that? :) It is not that cool, since "The Rising" will be released in 2002, and wouldn't fit into 1984-2001 category. :) > So we are not completely lost here in Sweden. :) That's true, I've met some really nice Swedish Bruce fans. > By the way, the Crows-album. I don't know if it's released on the 8th > or the 9th in the U.S, so don't blame me if you go to the store and > it isn't there. :) Is this really the forum to discuss that band? > On July 30th Jesus is back. > Let him bless us with the (you know this one...) power... > and the glory... with the poweeeer... and the gloooryyy... > with the misteryyy... with the majeeeestyyy... > (silence..) > WITH THE MINISTY OF ROCK'N'ROLL! Please think about what you said just there, and please: try again. > /Christoffer, 15 years old and music-freak. Regards, Kalle (from Finland) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 14:03:34 -0700 From: "Eric Douglas" Subject: Rising tension Nope, no flame from me......my impression of the upcoming single is that the two songs balance each other very well, and perhaps LOHAD will get some airplay, as well as some more listeners. Put me in the category of those who won't be buying the single, since I'll have both songs on other albums. Eric Phoenix, AZ > While I have deliberately not sought out any of the new songs circulating I > was looking forward to hearing a single release before the album. I see it > is being billed as a 2 track item, The Rising (mounting anticipation) and > Land of Hope and Dreams. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 00:39:10 +0000 From: "E W" Subject: Lonesome Soul Er...uh...Day. Call me crazy but does "Lonesome Day" remind anyone else of the Righteous Brothers' song "Soul & Inspiration"? Musically, perhaps more than lyrically as I haven't heard "S.I." in a long time but the strings & drumming sent me back almost immediately. Just curious if anyone else hears similarities. Also, what's with AOL? They put "L. Day" on for a few hours today and after that, every time I clicked on it I got sent to "The Rising" song. Am I doing something wrong or does AOL remove the songs after awhile? Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 17:11:16 -0400 From: jp Subject: Bruce, the Palace, & Madame Marie's in CNN story It's a little long to cut & paste - Here's the part featuring Bruce material, with a link to the entire article. http://www.cnn.com/2002/TRAVEL/NEWS/07/08/asbury.ascension.ap/index.html The city was founded in 1871 as a vacation spot for the wealthy and it evolved into a resort of Victorian mansions, boardwalk hotels and guest cottages. One square mile, with lakes on either end and an ocean beach, the city became a premier Jersey shore destination. A 1927 fire demolished much of Asbury Park, but the city spent $6 million to refurbish the 1 1/2-mile boardwalk. Two Art Deco structures were built to anchor it -- Convention Hall and the Casino, which straddles the boardwalk and included an arena, an arcade and a carousel. In the 1960s, amusements took hold on the boardwalk, converting Asbury Park into more of a workingman's shore town. Even then, it was on the decline. In 1973, Bruce Springsteen's first album, entitled "Greetings from Asbury Park, N.J.," carried an old-fashioned postcard on its cover. The block letters of "Asbury Park" were filled in by colorful beach and Boardwalk scenes that belied the city's ongoing decline. The Boss' latest release includes "My City of Ruins," a song inspired by Asbury Park. Madam Marie's fortune telling booth, immortalized on the 1973 record cover, is boarded up, overlooking an often empty beach. Boardwalk pavilions are shuttered. The Casino is entirely boarded up and Palace Amusements, a giant amusement building built in the 1880s, awaits a new lease on life -- or the wrecking ball. "It looks like a war zone," said native Ralph Aldarelli, 60, walking the boardwalk one recent afternoon. The only real activity on the waterfront comes at night, when the sound of live music seeps out of The Stone Pony, the seaside nightclub where a young Springsteen honed his skills, and cars begin filling the lot at the Paradise, a gay nightclub. - -- jp AOL IM "Plunkman99" ICQ # 7157610 "Hell's brewing, dark sun's on the rise This storm will blow through, by and by House is on fire, vipers in the grass Little revenge and this too shall pass" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:29:11 +0200 From: "Peter Geissler" Subject: '84 Boss bandwagon Greeting from Vienna/Austria, great to read about the listening parties and to get informations on what the new album sounds like. But there's one thing that's buggin' me and that I'm fed up with. Every now and then somebody brings up that dumb phrase "jumped the Boss' Bandwagon in 1984", just like Dave Cackowski did in LT Digest V9/#28: "There will be those who joined the boss bandwagon in 84' when "Born In The USA" became the monster record it was who will probably think the album a downer and not "commercial enough" for their tastes." Dear Dave, do you think that I'm something of a lesser fan, simply I became aware of Bruce's music through BIUSA? Man, take a count, that's 18 years ago and, believe it or not, I'm still with the Boss. If somebody (whoever that may be) thinks in terms of commercially successful music only, he/she would have left the bandwagon right after BIUSA, simply because non of the following albums had that commerical success and/or commerical touch. Just take a look at "Tunnel Of Love" or "Ghost Of Tom Joad". Commercial? Excuse me for not having been born in New Jersey, for never having been able to seen Bruce with the "Castilles", "Steel Mill" or "The Bruce Springsteen Band". No, I never got the chance to see Bruce's early gigs, like the 1978 tour (did you, by the way?). But does that really make me a lesser fan? Does that mean that I have to spend the rest of my Bruce-loving life with the brandmark of "jumping the bandwagon in 1984"? Is somebody who got hooked on Bruce during the "River"-tour a better fan? And can this guy be shunned by people who bought "Greetings" on the first day of release? Please, folks out there, be so kind, let's cut that nonsense, at least in this forum. We are bound by the love for Bruce's music, so what's the use in making a difference? Peter [text/html attachment deleted] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:46:44 -0400 From: Tom Ross Subject: Dates...........Vegas In today's ( July 8th ) Las Vegas Review Journal, the local entertainment writer said his sources say that Bruce will be playing Vegas on August 18th, a Sunday. Now this guy has been wrong before, as a matter of fact, he said some things about Bruce on the last tour that were wrong, and since the tour is supposed to start in mid August, I don't see Bruce starting the tour in the West. It just doesn't sound right. Just thought I'd put that rumor out there, we should know soon!!!! ( he said hopefully). Tom in Vegas ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:08:30 EDT From: NJBOB113@aol.com Subject: Grushecky/La Bamba/Bandiera @ the Pony 7/13 Joe Grushecky & The Houserockers return to The Stone Pony along with La Bamba's Big Band and the Bobby Bandiera Band this coming Saturday, July 13. This will mark Grushecky's first appearance on the Stone Pony's outdoor Summer Stage. The 2002 Summer Stage is over a foot higher than last summer's stage affording great sightlines to any one in the Summer Stage viewing area. Grushecky & The Houserockers will be performing songs from "Fingerprints" a collection of Grushecky songs released this past May on the New Jersey based Schoolhouse Records label. The seven piece band will also reach back in their catalog of gritty Pittsburgh anthems and roots rock laments including songs from their 1995 American Babylon which was produced by Bruce Springsteen and bar band classics from Grushecky's Iron City Houserockersstint in their set. Grushecky and his Band will hit the Summer Stage at 8 PM. Capping off the night on the indoor stage of the Pony will be La Bamba's Big Band with a set of horn-drenched, R&B influenced rock 'n' roll. Led by the charismatic vocalist and trombone player Richie "La Bamba" the Big Band has been inspring Jersey Shore audiences for nearly two decades. La Bamba and his trumpet player, Mark "the Love Man" Pender are both members of the Max Weinberg 7, the band on Late Night with Conan O'Brian seen on NBC TV. La Bamba and Pender are also alumni of the Horns of Love, the horn section on Bruce Springsteen's Tunnel Of Love tour. The evening's festivities will be kicked off at approximately 6:30 PM by the Bobby Bandiera Band. Bandiera is a great vocalist and versatile guitar player who is currently Southside Johnny's onstage foil in the Asbury Jukes. Bandiera also performed poignant versions of George Harrison's "Here Comes The Sun" during Bruce Springsteen's Holiday Shows in Asbury Park in December 2001. The Stone Pony will open its doors next Saturday at 6 PM. The Stone Pony is located at the corner of Ocean and Second Avenues (913 Ocean Avenue) in Asbury Park, NJ. Visit the Directions page at www.stoneponyonline.com or call The Stone Pony at 732-502-0600 for further information. TICKET INFORMATION Tickets are available for the Saturday, July 13 Joe Grushecky/La Bamba/Bobby Bandiera show at The Stone Pony Box office and all of the tuicket outlets listed below. Admission is 18 to enter, 21 to drink. THE STONE PONY BOX OFFICE The Stone Pony box office is open Tuesday through Friday from noon to 5 p.m. and during club hours. There is no service charge when you buy tickets at The Stone Pony box office. TICKETMASTER Tickets are available at Ticketmaster outlets, Ticketmaster online and charge by phone at 201-507-8900 or 609-520-8383. Ticketmaster charges a per-ticket service fee. THE HARD GROVE CAFE The Hard Grove Cafe is located at 319 Grove Street in Jersey City, N.J., just across the street from the Grove Street PATH station. Call 201-451-1853 for operating hours. FREEHOLD MUSIC CENTER Freehold Music Center is located at 3681 Route 9 in Freehold, N.J. Call 732-462-4730 for operating hours. Tickets are sold in the print music department at the back of the store. VINTAGE VINYL Vintage Vinyl is located in the Fords Shopping Center on Route 1 North in Fords, N.J. The store is open Monday through Saturday from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. and Sunday from 12 noon to 8 p.m. Their phone number is 732-225-7717. Visit Vintage Vinyl online for directions. ATOMIC CDS Atomic CDs is located at 2811 Bridge Ave. in Point Pleasant, N.J. Call 732-295-9150 for operating hours. GEE'S ACTIVEWEAR Gee's Activewear is located at Towne Center, 2005 Route 35 in Oakhurst, N.J. Call 732-531-2900 for operating hours. MUSIC MAKERS Music Makers is located in the K Mart Plaza on Route 35 in Wall, N.J. Call 732-681-7469 for operating hours. [text/html attachment deleted] ------------------------------ End of LuckyTown Digest V9 #30 ****************************** ********************************************************************* ** LuckyTown WWW URL ** The LuckyTown FAQ, back issues, web-based subscription/unsubscription, and many other things can be found on the LuckyTown WWW Page: http://www.luckytown.org ** LuckyTown mailing list addresses ** You can send email to go into the next LuckyTown Digest to: luckytown@luckytown.org You can send email to go into the next LuckyTown-Ads Digest to: luckytown-ads@luckytown.org Any questions for the list admin should be emailed to: owner-luckytown@luckytown.org To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@luckytown.org with message body: unsubscribe luckytown-digest To get further information on how to subscribe/unsubscribe/change your subscription address, as well as the other available commands, send email to majordomo@luckytown.org with message body: help ********************************************************************* The contents of this digest are not necessarily approved by the list admin.