From: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org (LuckyTown Digest) To: luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Subject: LuckyTown Digest V9 #42 Reply-To: luckytown@luckytown.org Sender: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Errors-To: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Precedence: bulk LuckyTown Digest Friday, July 19 2002 Volume 09 : Number 042 NOTE: Sale/trade posts should be emailed to luckytown-ads, *NOT* to luckytown. That includes tix wanted/tix grovels, post them to luckytown-ads, please. Contents: World Exclusive This Weekend on Little Steven's Underground Garage!!! ["h] Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #41 [StZapper@aol.com] Bravo Seebo!!! [OmanIV@aol.com] bootleginfo ["Tonny" ] GA ["Jose A. Cachaza" ] the Rising on ebay ["M. Conens" ] Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #41 [TicCR@aol.com] Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #41 [TicCR@aol.com] Bob's Thoughts [JerzykB@aol.com] Lack of shows in the Northeast ["Tom McAndrews" ] On GA and available 'seating' [Svein Karlsen ] Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #40 [Eeeestreetband@aol.com] Re: Jennifer, Gabor & GA in Digest #039 ["Dr. Palasti Gabor" Subject: World Exclusive This Weekend on Little Steven's Underground Garage!!! This weekend, July 20/21, Little Steven's Underground Garage will host the world exclusive premiere of a song from Bruce Springsteen's The Rising called "Countin' On A Miracle." For local broadcast times, check www.littlesteven.com/news.html for the most updated affiliate list (now 58 stations across the U.S. and Canada); or listen live on Sunday night July 21 through the internet at http://www.q1043.com/listen.html. Little Steven, dubbed by Kurt Loder "the coolest DJ in the country," also intends this week's show to double as a celebration of New Jersey rock and roll. The set list will include Garden State garage rockers like the Rascals, Richard and the Young Lions, the Knickerbockers, and the Swingin' Neckbreakers. Though "Countin' on a Miracle" deviates a bit from the fuzzed-out fare of the Underground Garage, Van Zandt explains the new song isn't out of place."Garage is the common thread for all of us," he says. "If you want to play rock and roll, you start with Garage." Beginning with its April 7, 2002 launch, Little Steven's Underground Garage has grown at an astounding rate and emerged as the preeminent force in the resurgence of Garage Rock. Each week, Van Zandt plays his favorites from British Invasion stars like the Yardbirds, Rolling Stones, and the Beatles; 60's legends Them, the Pretty Things, Paul Revere and the Raiders, and Barry and the Remains; punks the Dead Boys, the Ramones, and the MC5; 80's Garage Bands the Fuzztones, the Cynics, and the Chesterfield Kings; and current bands the Hives, the Mooney Suzuki, the Greenhornes, the Shazam, Cotton Mather, Anderson Council and Creatures of the Golden Dawn. www.littlesteven.com/news.html www.littlesteven.com/undergroundgarage.html www.hardrock.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 06:41:06 EDT From: StZapper@aol.com Subject: Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #41 >>From: "Joe Piechowski" > To answer your final question, I can only say that I think a lot of us > are scratching are heads wondering why they felt compelled to fix what > wasn't broken. By all means, tweak it...but if it ain't broke, don't fix > it! > They weren't compelled to fix something that wasn't broke. They were building a brand new machine. This tour is not meant to be what the last tour was.... Bruce has stated, repeatedly, that he's going to promote this record, huge. When you get under it the last tour was a celebration of the old time connection between Bruce and his fans... it was about taking old memories and growing them. This tour is about new. It's about all of us, old fans, new fans, non-fans, finding our way in troubled times. It's about celebrating of all of humanity. Not a narrower segment. Scalping is bad. E-Bay is bad. Unless you turn the lens inside out. Ebay is a huge tool for promotion... Haven't seen a USA Today recently (only read it when it's free) but I'd guess there are many tickets being offered in the classified section.. probably some with a bold classified headline reading "Bruce Springsteen, NYC/NJ" more publicity, more hype, more energy, more anticipation.... Hey it's what they're going for. Maybe it's time for us, the long time fan, to give back to Bruce. Maybe it's time to step back, thank him for the last tour and wish him luck with the new one. I need Bruce. I'd love for my kids to find a way to understanding this. Maybe in a year they will. One love, Steve [text/html attachment deleted] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:38:29 EDT From: OmanIV@aol.com Subject: Bravo Seebo!!! In a message dated 7/18/02 12:19:36 AM, Chris writes: << When we got there at 10:10 a.m., there were 33 people already in line. The first guy in line drew a number out of a hat in a TM lottery. He drew 21. So the first 20 people in line had to move to the rear. They were not happy, but they knew the rules going in. >> Does that make the rules right? Let's see now. If I really want to see Bruce, I can get down to Ticketmaster real early, and get a good place in line. Then get a lousy lottery, reducing my odds. Then there's the random distribution of tickets in the system, ticketmaster pulling it's own tickets (I remember in Days of Olde, the Grand Central Station Ticketmeister had 3 machines, 2 for the customers, and one in the back for the employees and scalpers) Then if I get GA, I have to put in another 8 to 10 hours to try to get good seats. What is the point of the TM lottery anyway? Shouldn't someone who really wants to see Bruce have some edge over someone walking by who thinks mebbe he'll see Bruce. Whatever happened to "You want it, you take it, you pay the price, and Prove It All Night, Prove It All Night, cause there's nothing else that we can do. " Even as an "old fart" I'd go down, if that's all it took. You meet the best people...... I remember when Dylan started the Never Ending Tour (an extension of Rolling Thunder) and tickets were ONLY mail order at GPO (the big post orifice in NYC, ironically, but not in this case significantly, across from Madison Square Garden.) It was announced in the Sunday NY Times (the traditioal big ad on page 2 of Arts & Leisure), and there was a general "problem" for people to get MO's on a Sunday (MO's were mainly the banks and PO in those days, which were closed on Sunday.) and envelopes couldn't be postmarked before that Sat. night/Sun morn midnight of the Sunday the ad appeared. I was the First Person in the USA to mail my order at midnight at GPO (I lived 4 blox away, and the lobby used to be "Open All Night") and I got nosebleed. Warning from one who got shafted by "Express Mail" in 1999: if you get tickets on Ebay, make SURE you have enuff time to get them, even with Express Mail or Federal Express, who, if they don't know you, will require you be there all day, or you won't get them. And I had one set I won, and then the guy decided he was giving them to his friends. My hats off to Seebo!! You've put our problems in perspective, and I truly hope that "the powers that be" are reading this. If I'd known yesterday, I would have tried to have gotten word through to Gary Talent at the Beacon last night for your friends; I've always known better than to ask him for tickets myself, even when he came over to my house for some video once in '78, and I played him a tape of "Walking In The Streets" ("Delinquent Lovers" or whatever it's called) which he had really hard time remembering, since they had only ever done it once in the studio. I remember we were able to have him get word thru for a blind girl in Montreal in '78. (who even got to meet Bruce!!) The Reeking Scones I can believe asking $300, Sir Paulie for $130, but Neil Young at $125 seems out of character, but then Neil always did have his own kind of weird. I.E. his "programming" of the Buffalo Springfield box set, with songs repeated twice, etc. I guess he has to spend it on "wardrobe"; all those "elegant costumes" of his. :-( If I have to play the lottery, I'm gonna go for MegaMillions. Mebbe then I'll be able to get a decent seat I can afford...., and the odds seem about the same. :-? Johnno ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:44:51 +0200 From: "Tonny" Subject: bootleginfo Latest bootleginfo and info about THE RISING: http://httpd.chello.nl/~a.vandeheijden/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:59:56 +0200 From: "Jose A. Cachaza" Subject: GA I understand that for Americans the GA policy is like going back to the past, but while I respect if you like it or if you don't, I beleive that you are overestimating the risk element. I lived 5 yrs in the US, and as a European I always found weird to see an arena or evan a stadium with chairs in the floor. Can be more confortable but, IMHO, makes the show times colder. I don't beleive is necesary to camp 2 days or even 6 hrs to get a good position. What it's true is that you have to forget to be in a front place if you don't want to be pushed and shoved. It's true that you need to be there 2-3 hours before the show starts if you want to be in lower section good seats (I did that in the RS Bridges to Babylon tour and in the U2 Pop Mart and worked wonderful). As for going down to the field, I prefer to tell you my last bruce experience. In '99 Euro tour I went to the show in Zaragoza, Spain, with 30.000 fans packing a soccer stadium. I arrived to the stadium at 21.05 while the show was due to start at 21.00 (it did 20 min late). Well I wen't down to the field, and ended watching the show without a single push 15 meters from the stage (wonderful place to see, to hear, to dance, to feel the experience), and beleive me if I tell you that fans in Spain are 1000 times rowdier than in the States. As somebody said here befere, this is r&r not opera in the Met. changing subjects, somebody said hear that "the rising" won't get many airplay in radio formulas. We'll this can be in the US. Last saturday I hear the single in a Spanish top-40-like station. It seems to me that Sony is doing its homework this time. Jose A. Cachaza Madrid _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:57:58 -0700 From: "M. Conens" Subject: the Rising on ebay Someone was talking about concert tickets being on ebay before they even went on sale. I found 120 auctions for The Rising, two weeks before its release. At least the auctions I saw did say it would not be shipped until the 30th! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:41:13 EDT From: TicCR@aol.com Subject: Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #41 In a message dated 7/18/02 10:55:08 PM, owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org writes: << > I don't think she ended up getting a ticket. But the guy > who was first in line kept his cool, went up to someone in front of us, and > politely asked how many tickets they were getting. They said two. Mind if go in > with you? He said. And he got tickets. > There's a lesson to be learned there. >> With so much "corruption" at the TM outlets, that's sort of the ONLY way I've ever gotten tickets while on line. I've switched to phone and Internet now, I don't even consider going down to the outlets. I'm in NJ anyway and this time around the outlets were not selling the local shows. Phyllis ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:17:39 EDT From: TicCR@aol.com Subject: Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #41 In a message dated 7/18/02 10:55:08 PM, owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org writes: << While I acknowledge the fact that the events of that day were a national tragedy (not quite up there with the Civil War or Indian Wars, mind you) and I ache for those who lost families, friends, loved ones, etc., I don't think about or dwell on that day very much. Living in California at the time, most of us simply weren't very affected by it, at least directly (save for those with connections to people on the planes bound for our state). It didn't change anything about my life (other than the pain-in-the-ass security checks and attendant loss of civil liberties), nor do I view that date as "the day everything changed and nothing will be the same." Please. >> No disrespect intended, but believe me, you're wrong about this, and if you think nothing's changed, you're kidding yourself. Nice to be living in a little place where you obviously feel sheltered by this all, but believe me, that was not the case in the NJ NY area. There was a person on every block here in my hometown who had a loved one NOT come home on that dreaded day or at least know someone who had the same experience. In some pockets locally, entire communities were sharing this grief personally. The huge sense of loss was overwhelming. The fire and police forces were trying their best to just not break down publicly and provide any support they could while going through their own crisis. The city was in chaos. People displaced, and people fleeing with no idea when they would be able to return or if they could return with safety. No dwelling here, but sometimes it's just there; impossible to not think about. What you do is try to "rise up" with courage and dignity and get on with your life, but ALL of our lives have changed in regard to this, and I don't just mean having to carpool into the city or having to deal with "pain in the ass security checks." Why do you think they are doing those security checks anyway? I'm sorry but you sound a little jaded and callous. I am very glad to hear that this tragedy did not affect you personally, but listen to "Missing" on the new Bruce record (and many of the others) and you might just begin to understand. Phyllis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:31:32 EDT From: JerzykB@aol.com Subject: Bob's Thoughts I loved Bob's articulate, thoughtful comments in today's LTD (it was the last, very lengthy post), and his wonderful descriptions and predictions. Funny thing is (except for the descriptions of the hassles of the front of GA), to me it was all positive! I'd love to see a serious, thoughtful, reflective, intelligent -- but rocking and hopeful -- set! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:03:17 -0400 From: "Tom McAndrews" Subject: Lack of shows in the Northeast I share the frustrations of many of the previous posts regarding the lack of multiple shows or venues in some of Bruce's most fervent markets. In all five New England states (Connecticut included) there is only one show scheduled - Boston. Take a look at Ohio - THREE Shows! (and tickets available in Cleveland three days after they went on sale). Two shows in NC and another in SC, three in Texas and three in Florida where Orlando didn't even sell-out last tour. It would be nice if the tour schedulers could look at other venues within some high demand markets. How about Anaheim or San Diego? Worcester MA or Manchester NH (The new Verizon Wireless Arena)? If I don't get tickets to Boston (and the odds will be slim), I'm not sure I can wait until 2003! Good luck !!! Tom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:19:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Svein Karlsen Subject: On GA and available 'seating' Hi all, As a dedicated lurker, it's not often that I stick my head out to offer my opinion. A lot of the time, discussions on this forum run on way too long, and I find myself just browsing the subject headers when a new Luckytown digest arrives, possibly scrolling down to read one or two interesting postings if the subject matter is interesting. The question of whether or not General Admission is a good idea or not, ultimately comes down to cultural differences. In the US, experiences like Altamont drove both lawmakers and event coordinators (depending on which state you're in) to stop offering GA tickets and put in seats instead. In Europe, despite a handful of terminal accidents involving fans crushed to death in the tight squeeze up front, GA is still the norm and likely will be for the foreseeable future. The difference? European audiences *like* being able to dance at the and not sit down for the duration of the show. US audiences *like* the idea of sitting down when they feel like it, but will (most of the time) stand up anyway next to their seat. GA audiences *do* crowd in front of the stage. Every GA ticket is potentialially a front row ticket, but the price you have to pay is you have to deal with the crowd. If you can't hack that, then stay away from the stage. It's that simple. During GA shows in Europe, you often find that there are no people in the back half of the floor. This tells me two things: - - a GA ticket gives everybody a fair chance of getting closer to the stage than they would otherwise get with a seat - - most people prefer to stand closer together for a better view of Bruce than with lots of space around but farther away from the stage Some of the first comments made on why the promoters are now offering GA tickets speculated that they were trying to make a buck out of squeezing more people into the concert hall. I don't know how the equation comes out, but the fact of the matter is that the Fire Marshall has the last word in such matters. You can only pack so many people into a building before the Fire Marshall says 'stop.' As a few people have pointed out, however, you usually get a very good view of the stage if you step back a few rows. 30 meters/yards from the stage, the crowd thins out and you can often move freely about. Remember, we're talking mature Bruce audiences here, not Britney Spears or Eminem teenage audiences. 30 m from the stage, you get a better view because you can see more of the stage and the interaction between the band members. 30 m from the stage you can still make out all of Bruce's moves and facial expressions. 30 m from the stage you can actually see the stage well if you're only 5'2" (158 cm) because there are fewer people directly in front of you. Try it - in a seating situation, there will *always* be people directly in front of you, and at a Bruce show, they most likely will be standing a lot of the time. And last, but definitely not least: the sound is much better. Finally, a couple of questions: - - how was seating handled during the 1985 US stadium tour? Did they put seats down at Meadowlands or the LA Coliseum? - - the Dancing in the Dark video shows people standing and dancing next to the stage. This video was taken from an actual concert. How was seating handled at this show? Take care, Svein ====-- Svein __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 19:51:42 EDT From: Eeeestreetband@aol.com Subject: Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #40 In a message dated 7/17/02 11:22:08 PM Central Daylight Time, owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org writes: > You said it your self, every ticket is potentially a front row ticket! > There is going to be a massive rush and I don't think it will work out. I > would have to estimate that the average age of the Bruce fan is over 35, > taking a U2 (et al) approach to having GA is a bad idea for Bruce > Springsteen. funny...I can remember when general admission was the norm in the 70s...it was nuts for bands like the rolling stones and the who. people got hurt bad all the time, you just didn't hear about it until the who show in Cincinnati, and yes I think Bruce is good enough to draw that "frenzy " to go to the front at all costs... I can only think of about 4-5 bands that could possible draw that kind of obsession from a crowd, and Bruce is one of them. Someone mentioned underselling the floor...>> yea right <<< I don't think its going to happen, they will sell more. Even if they did undersell the floor, people would pack up tight as soon as the lights go out ( steel toe shoes might be a good idea..lol ) I am really looking forward to this tour, general addmision and all, I hope some of you are right and it goes smoothly, But............. Look out when the lights go out....its 1979 , and we are headed to the front... wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Larry [text/html attachment deleted] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:12:29 +0200 (DFT) From: "Dr. Palasti Gabor" Subject: Re: Jennifer, Gabor & GA in Digest #039 Dear Birgit, sometimes some people are hit by cars and suffer badly in the accident. It does not however mean that cars should be banned per se and replaced by some other means of transportation. Sometimes people are trampled on in a concert in the arena - it does not mean that the GA system should be replaced immediately. I can imagine what you feel when you notice that your friend has just fainted and you are surrounded by hundreds of closely standing and dancing and jumping people all perhaps singing out loud the "Oooh-ooh-ooh-ohohoo" lines of Badlands and not paying attention to you or your friend. Those guys who are in the midst of enthusiasm and are caught up having the time of their lives suddenly become vulgar hostile barbarians to you and the memories you have of them are the fists in the air their underarm hair. And you are suddenly very, very much alone on your own. That this happens - - it is within the cards. And you were one who pulled this cards for that night. And I have sympathy for you because of that - just like for anyone hit by a car. Still, the system works very well for the vast majority of people and they are enjoying the experience much better than as if they were seated. Otherwise why should the GA system be in use for decades involving hundreds of millions of happy fans over the years in a great many number of different concerts? Sure, there are risks with it - just like with anything mankinds has ever done. If you ever go out onto the street you should always consider that a brick may fall on your head and badly hurt you or eventually kill you. But, as for the risks of the GA system, the system has been developed such that those risks have been brought down to the minimum - to me they by far pass the test of applicability. I have been an active concert-goer for about 13 years by now (well, since the communist regime has started to melt up and later fall so that people were in fact allowed to travel and attend big concerts and big concerts were generally allowed) and with 20+ big concerts behind, yours is the second such gross and terrible experience of a GA show that I have heard. The first one was from 1988 when I heard that a girl was raped in the audience. All others thought that she was screaming of excitement and enthusiasm for the songs while she was screaming because a guy introduced his penis into her vagina from behind. Now, if anyone draws the conclusion that she would not ever go to a GA concert in the future because she may be raped or - alternatively - if she faints people will not care - that person's wisdom equals, in my eyes, to the one's who does not dare leaving the house for the street because a brick may accidentally fall on her head and kill her, just like it has in fact happened to some. Oh, and I can not 100% sure guarantee that the brick won't fall on your head - or that you will not be raped on the show. There is this risk - for as long as you are alive there is risk all over. But you have to estimate that risk and then decide. And if the risk is minimal than whatever is feared under the risk is not an argument to entirely stop that particular thing that we discuss even if you happen to be the one who very badly suffered that risk. Dear Birgit, I truly hope that your bad experience will not be a stigma for you in future concerts. For all the others I hope that Birgit's story will be one that serves only awareness of some risks and not rigid denial of the entire system. You would get the picture what the GA system was worth that night if you compared Birgit's concert story with the story of every attendant from that night - which is not available - and then compared the level of excitement and compared it with the disappointment. Then decide. Wishing you joy and excitement for the shows, Greetings from Hungary, Gabor Palasti P.s.: Birgit, the assumption in your question: > Is there any reason European people are proud of being treated like a > herd of sheep and even worse? is, for the better case, incorrect, for the worse, incorrect AND maliscious. ------------------------------ End of LuckyTown Digest V9 #42 ****************************** ********************************************************************* ** LuckyTown WWW URL ** The LuckyTown FAQ, back issues, web-based subscription/unsubscription, and many other things can be found on the LuckyTown WWW Page: http://www.luckytown.org ** LuckyTown mailing list addresses ** You can send email to go into the next LuckyTown Digest to: luckytown@luckytown.org You can send email to go into the next LuckyTown-Ads Digest to: luckytown-ads@luckytown.org Any questions for the list admin should be emailed to: owner-luckytown@luckytown.org To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@luckytown.org with message body: unsubscribe luckytown-digest To get further information on how to subscribe/unsubscribe/change your subscription address, as well as the other available commands, send email to majordomo@luckytown.org with message body: help ********************************************************************* The contents of this digest are not necessarily approved by the list admin.