From: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org (LuckyTown Digest) To: luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Subject: LuckyTown Digest V9 #78 Reply-To: luckytown@luckytown.org Sender: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Errors-To: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Precedence: bulk LuckyTown Digest Wednesday, August 28 2002 Volume 09 : Number 078 NOTE: Sale/trade posts should be emailed to luckytown-ads, *NOT* to luckytown. That includes tix wanted/tix grovels, post them to luckytown-ads, please. Contents: poor steve....... [JRC ] Positively 4th Street [jsavage@concentric.net (Johnny Saulovich)] So it sucks? Got any tickets? [Gren4@cs.com] Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #76 [Alexmccat@aol.com] Re:I'll say it, if no one else will: this sucks [Andrea M ] Re: Subject: I'll say it, if no one else will: this sucks [StZapper@aol.] Steve Leftridge will say it, if no one else will: this sucks [Gary Dunaie] Re: I'll say it, if no one else will: this sucks ["Douglas W. Corkhill"] Re: I'll say it, if no one will: this sucks ["Brian Hedden" Subject: poor steve....... "Okay. Let me have it. Steve Leftridge St. Louis, MO" To qoute the great Dr Evil "ya just don't get it, do ya" Do you REALLY prefer "you can look.." to "Lonesome day" or "Waitin'" ? Come on Steve, do you really want Bruce to keep performin those tired old frat-house anthems into his mid 50s ? If all you want is a replay of Bruces 70s and 80s shows, then YOU do need to stay at home and listen to your boots, thankfully Bruce has felt the need to push his art a little further. It's a shame some of his "fans" cant accept that, nothing is sadder than rock n roll bands going out year after year performing nothing but 20 yr old hits, if you want that go see the Eagles (and pay a damn sight more than $75 for the pleasure). I'm not sure which show(s) you saw Steve, but here on the west coast, the shows have been sensational and the audiences have appreciated them. Blind faith in anything is not a good thing, but apprecaiting an artists work is never "blind faith", what is scarier is wanting to see an artist stagnate and merely replicate himself. Stay at home Steve, play "Nassau night" endlessly, thats fine, one less person to clog up the ticketbastard lines......... Johnny ===="Caught between that world and this, I'd sell my soul for a Bond girls kiss" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 15:20:28 -0700 From: jsavage@concentric.net (Johnny Saulovich) Subject: Positively 4th Street Mr. Leftridge's noxious, presumptive thoughts really enlivened my Sunday. The myopia of the self-centered is seemingly limitless. >Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:01:42 -0500 >From: Steve Leftridge >Subject: I'll say it, if no one else will: this sucks > >The Rising is the weakest tour ever >taken with the E Street Band. Here's why: >1. The marketing, crafting, and presentation of the album as centered around >9/11 translates into a genuine downer of a live show. Have you even BEEN to a show this tour? The "marketing, crafting, and presentation of the album" has been to get people to LISTEN to the music. The show is another animal altogether. It's unclear just how "marketing" affects how one perceives a live Bruce Springsteen performance. In Tacoma, I witnessed ten people on a stage simply committed to playing music, no props or proselytizing. >2. When did it become Bruce's job to save our souls? It was never his job to "save our souls." However, Bruce's music may serve to remind one that it "ain't no sin to be glad that you're alive." >I'll gladly listen >reflectively during the slower, more somber, meaningful numbers. But, I want >the catchy-ass rave ups and so does everyone else. Is he only pretending to >have so much fun during "Glory Days"? No, I think you're only pretending to "gladly listen" to the "meaningful numbers." >3. >So, can anyone is the world explain why everyone has to expect >friggin' "Prove it All Night" at their show?? Any Bruce fan worth their salt >already heard that last time out and would gladly trade it for any album cut in >existence. On the other hand, those that didn't see the last show won't know >the song that well and certainly won't be disappointed if it isn't played. So, >who in the hell is he playing that song for?? I can help. Step outside of your little world and imagine if you'd NEVER seen a Springsteen concert. Further imagine you really like the Darkness album. It would be fair to wager that "Prove It All Night" would make "anyone's" top 5 of songs most desired as a first-timer. And besides, it FITS with Bruce's evident, long time desire to provide continuity from song to song. >4. Bruce is wasting the E Street Band. He might as well be touring without >them. Sure, Clarence is given his requisite solos during the tired, played-out >standards. But, those solos have been hammered down into cliches of Bruce's >music, and the rest of the time he stands over there with finger cymbals, et >al. Remember when the band sounded like none other? When the piano and keys >were banging and chiming and the guitars were flying and the sax was cutting >like a chainsaw? Yes, I remember when the band sounded like none other. It was just last Wednesday at the Tacoma Dome. Guess you weren't there. Springsteen is only "wasting the E Street Band" if he uses them to fuel the nostalgic desires of musically small-minded audience members like yourself. >5. At 75 bucks, ticket prices are higher than ever. At 2.5 hours and 22 >songs, the show is shorter and more anemic than ever. What is anemic is your mental acuity. Bruce is carrying an even bigger group this time out, and yet ticket prices are the SAME as on Tour 99/00. The SAME. And all provided FREE of any corporate sponsorship. Although I failed to pack my stopwatch for Springsteen's Tacoma concert, I can state his performance is virtually the same length as before, and this from a man who will be 53 in less than 30 days. Sometimes I think Bruce can't win for losing with "fans" like Steve Leftridge. Johnny Albany, CA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 23:24:51 EDT From: Gren4@cs.com Subject: So it sucks? Got any tickets? Hi, This is for Steve Leftridge, who wrote in Digest #76 that Bruce sucks, the E Street Band sucks and the show sucks: Hey, Steve, you got any tickets left for any of the shows? I'll take 'em. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 00:04:28 EDT From: Alexmccat@aol.com Subject: Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #76 > Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:01:42 -0500 > From: Steve Leftridge > Subject: I'll say it, if no one else will: this sucks > Blah Blah Blah....why don't you do yourself a favor and stay home. Listen to "Live from New York" and dance up a storm. Save the 75.00 big ones(which is 2X less expensive than almost any other performer charges for 1/2 the songs). I personally don't care what people think and there are times that I can't stand some of Bruce's songs and "politics" and I'm about as die-hard as they come. Everyone is entitled to their/your opinion I guess but..sorry i have to say it...if you were in NY on 9/11 or knew some people directly affected by this NATIONAL TRAGEDY(as oppossed to a NY tragedy)...AND..you had been in the audience at MSG on 8/12 and got gooseflesh just wondering who was weeping in the audience when hearing "You're Missing" and "Into The Fire" and getting a little bit of grief-relief from "Waiting On A Sunny Day" and as you mentioned "Glory Days" then maybe you wouldn't be worried about this tour being a bummer for you and more concerned for the people who it may be helping. I personally do not think of Bruce as a self-appointed saviour...although he has and does continue to get me through some rough spots in my life, but it's his show and if he wants to play "Prove It" every night it's his choice...if he wants to do the "minister" thing thats ok with me too..it's uplifting and kind of campy in my opinion...and as for the band being under-utilized well they don't seem too upset about it....I'm sure that when the initial barn-storming is over and the tour resumes in 2003 everyone will again have their moments of glory! No one HAS to go to the shows....from August 7th we all had a good idea that this was going to be what it is...and it is. As far as I'm concerned I'm getting every penny's worth of my 75.00 bucks at these shows and I'm happy to be at any I can get away for or have tickets to...as I always say..the only really BAD Bruce show is one I don't have tickets to. I hope this was what you expected in response to your post! I did my best and meant it all! AND I think that "The Rising" is a masterpiece..but that's just THIS reporter's opinion *-) Caryl (somewhere in the swamps of Jersey) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 21:37:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrea M Subject: Re:I'll say it, if no one else will: this sucks Sometimes I cannot believe the audacity of some people..to think that Bruce Springsteen should gear his shows to what fans, or a fan wants....on all his tours supporting a new release, the shows were dominated by tracks from that cd and this one should be no different...I like the cd alot, think its his best release since "Tunnel Of Love" and it does not depress me....if it were up to some of his fans, then his cds would all start to sound the same...The reunion tour was the best chance to see Bruce perform from his back catalog for his fans, as it was a tour for his fans and he played songs that he has not played in 20-25 years....if he stuck to his back catalog, he would be no more than an oldies act, like the Beach Boys....I am looking forward to seeing him on this tour and I doubt if I leave the arena thinking "it sucked"....keep in mind the old Ricky Nelson song "Garden Party"- "If You Can't Please Everyone Then You Got To Please Yourself"...and Springsteen is one of the few artists that has not made artistic compromises....Andrea... - --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes [text/html attachment deleted] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 02:55:36 -0500 From: "Brian Greenway" Subject: Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #76 In LTD V9 #76, Steve Leftridge wrote: "Being a Bruce fan does not have to be a matter of blind faith, which Bruce famously derided in his pre-"War" speeches in the '80s." Ok, for everyone who feels compelled to get on the Springsteen fanlist and tell Springsteen fans that Springsteen sucks, you can stop quoting the speech from "War". We're Springsteen fans, we've heard it, and every single one of you feels compelled to quote it before you waste some bandwidth on stuff that most of us don't really want to hear. It's like you feel compelled to borrow his credibility before you trash him. Think about it. As for your "critique", well fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and Bruce certainly is not infallible. But I've been a Springsteen fan for about 25 years now, and what I've always appreciated about Bruce is that he made me think. It's not easy to be a Springsteen fan. You can't count on him making the easy decisions. You'd like him to put out new albums more often, but he doesn't because it's not him. And then you feel the excitement when that new release finally happens. You hate the fact that he left the E Street Band at home for a couple of tours, not thinking about the fact that the tremendous feelings and emotions that were part of the reunion tour happened because he took the risk that so many wouldn't with a new band. He supports law enforcement at every opportunity (ex. Patrick King benefits), then feels compelled to question them when he feels it's appropriate (41 Shots). He puts out an album that is heavily influenced by the most horrific act ever committed on US soil, accepting the fact that there will be some backlash by those who haven't paid attention to his career, because he feels like he needs to communicate to his fan base regarding the tradgedy. He's always taken the chances, and that's what makes him the most influential artist of his generation. It's also what makes me a fan. You want to see someone who sounds just like they did in the 70's? Go see The Who or the Rolling Stones. They've been banking in on people who want to be spoonfed their music for a long time now. Speaking out for the hometown, Brian Greenway St. Louis, MO "Meet me in the fields, where sunlight streams Meet me in the Land of Hope and Dreams" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 07:23:47 EDT From: StZapper@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: I'll say it, if no one else will: this sucks Dear Steve Leftridge- A bit of advice... try boxer shorts. >>When did it become Bruce's job to save our souls? September 23, 1949 >>But, I want the catchy-ass rave ups and so does everyone else. When did it become your job to speak for my soul? >>The show is, obviously, mired in worn-out songs and predictability This comes from a guy that tells us to stay home a damnce to our boots... from 1981 and 1985.... Eleven new songs.... A version of Dancing In The Dark that by most accounts little steven would be proud to spin... >>At 2.5 hours and 22 songs, the show is shorter and more anemic than ever. So much for proving it all night Do the math steve... 22 times over two and a half hours... ladies? [text/html attachment deleted] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 15:53:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Dunaier Subject: Steve Leftridge will say it, if no one else will: this sucks > Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:01:42 -0500 > From: Steve Leftridge > Subject: I'll say it, if no one else will: this sucks > > Being a Bruce fan does not have to be a matter of blind faith . . . I agree. You don't *have* to like everything he does... I don't. > . . . Just because some guy yelled, "We need you!," we must all > fall in line and be swept up in Springsteen's calming balm? No, not necessarily. Springsteen could have just as easily said that he doesn't want to be "needed" in that manner, and not made a new album until whenever he felt like it. Presumably Springsteen was on the fence as far as whether he should do anything above and beyond "My City Of Ruin" for the telethon, and the "We need you!" cry was the last straw that convinced him to create "The Rising". And you certainly don't have to "fall in line and be swept up in Springsteen's calming balm", if you don't want to. Again, being a Springsteen fan does not mean blind worship/acceptance of everything he puts out. (N.B.: this is a rhetorical "you", not specifically directed at Steve.) > . . . If I "need Springsteen now," I need him to come out and > tear through "You Can Look...," "Take 'Em as They Come," > "Thundercrack," "E Street Shuffle," etc . . . I want the > catchy-ass rave ups and so does everyone else. Don't speak for me... although I agree with you that I like the fast uptempo rockers better than the slower songs. > The show is, obviously, mired in worn-out songs and predictability . . . > can anyone is the world explain why everyone has to expect friggin' > "Prove it All Night" at their show?? Any Bruce fan worth their salt > already heard that last time out and would gladly trade it for any > album cut in existence. I *love* "Prove It All Night", it's one of my favorites. > On the other hand, those that didn't see the last show won't know > the song that well and certainly won't be disappointed if it isn't > played. What about the "true" fans (however one defines "true") who either tried and were unable to get tickets? What about those who are, shall we say, geographically challenged (e.g. fans in Australia)? There are *many* fans who *do* know the songs quite well but are not as fortunate as you or I in getting tickets. (This time the "you" is specific to Steve.) > So, who in the hell is he playing that song for?? The fans for whom any particular show is their first Springsteen show ever, perhaps? You had a first Springsteen show... so did I... let the others have their fun. If you don't want to hear him do the same songs over and over again, then don't go to so many shows! When he comes back to the NY area next year, I hope to go to as many shows as I can, and if he plays the same songs over and over again, well, it's still Springsteen live with me in the building, and if that's not good enough for me then there are plenty who would gladly take my place. > At 75 bucks, ticket prices are higher than ever. At 2.5 hours and > 22 songs, the show is shorter and more anemic than ever. Only by Bruce Springsteen standards. Chuck Berry played at BB King's in New York last June, and tickets to that show were $75.00 apiece... I didn't go, but I presume he just put in his perfunctory hour and left. (If anybody was at that show and can prove me wrong, please do so... I like Chuck Berry and he's one of the few performers who can blatantly go through the motions [i.e., playing for the money] and get away with it in my eyes, but not for $75.00...) Even so, someone posted somewhere that Bruce has done 2.5 hour shows before, even during the "golden age" of the Darkness tour (I don't remember who posted it or where, otherwise I'd cut and paste the posting). Gary Dunaier ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Thank you, if you like the tuning so much I hope you'll enjoy the playing more." - -- Ravi Shankar at the Concert for Bangla Desh __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:50:55 -0400 From: "Douglas W. Corkhill" Subject: Re: I'll say it, if no one else will: this sucks I'll say this for Steve Leftridge, he's not afraid to call the kettle black. And while I actually agree with a lot of what he had to say, I think it was the ~way~ he said it that disturbed me. But I admire his verve, his balls for posting a gloriously scathing post to a group dominated by true believers. I've questioned my belief at the alter of Sopringsteen on more than one occasion, so will respond to his observations. 1. The marketing, crafting, and presentation of the album as centered around 9/11 translates into a genuine downer of a live show. Well...only if you let it. There are some gloriously uplifting moments in songs like Sunny Day and Mary'e Place, and even the quiet songs such as Empty Sky and You're Missing are delivered beautifically. It is a different show, and some of the pacing is odd. I'm glad to see the changes he's made, especially in the American Skin 'slot.' 2. When did it become Bruce's job to save our souls? Is that what he's doing? The show has a theme, a purpose. I enjoyed hearing the new songs. I've been through my midlife crisis, my soul is in good shape for another twenty years so maybe I'm not the one to speak to this observation. 3. The show is, obviously, mired in worn-out songs and predictability. Maybe he is turning into Elvis... Of the comments Steve made, this one struck closest to home. I wrote here after the Meadowlands show that songs like Prove It, Badlands and yes, even Born To Run left me in an emotional vacuum. I agree with everything Steve said about Prove It. A little more variety, especially ~from~ what they played the last tour, would be nice. Then again...a guy on another list I read wrote this week he went to see Sanatana over the weekend and heard maybe 4 songs he recognized, and wished for ~more~ of the warhorses. Who do you please? 4. Bruce is wasting the E Street Band. Well, yes and no. The Jersey sound is alive and well in Mary''s Place, a song that sounds like it came straight off of Southside's Greatest Hits. Max's drumming still rattles my rib cage. I do think Clarence is being under utilized, but there seems to be something different in that relationship ever since the BITUSA stadium tour. When was the last time Bruce and Clarence kissed on stage? I agree ~somewhat~ with Steve's thought here, but this is one of those times I thought he laid it on a bit thick. 5. At 75 bucks, ticket prices are higher than ever. Actually it's not bad. I spent $91 for an Aerosmith ticket Saturday morning. Heck, the Allman Brothers (now there's a worn out wasted shell of a former band) wanted over $50 for their show here this weekend. And I won't even go into McCartney, the Eagles and the Stones. Doug ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 07:47:57 -0400 From: "Brian Hedden" Subject: Re: I'll say it, if no one will: this sucks I would've emailed this response to Steve's post but seeing he's one of the very few who actually had the guts to post that sort of thing I'd back him up in public. Someone's bound to say "he doesn't get it" or "he's not a true fan". If that's the case I'll stand right with him then. His first point was about the marketing, crafting, and presentation of the album and how it translates to a downer of a live show. I think he's 99 percent right about that. I think the last song of the main "set" is uplifting in it's tone which resolves the set as a whole. I have a feeling that the further away from the New York/New Jersey area you go, the more that 9/11 becomes more...gee...I hate to say "like a movie" but I saw what happened as well as he. I saw those buildings every day and I saw the aftermath. It's hard to NOT be moved in some way and to NOT still be haunted by those images. To center a CD around it might be one thing. To center a whole show around it seems to be a bit of a different beast. Now people can blast me for saying, "Well 'The Rising' could be about anything". Yeah it could but face facts it's not. They're mostly songs mostly INSPIRED BY the events of 9/11. Now I personally love the new material but when you incorporate SO MUCH of that kind of material it's hard to get into a groove or a "healing" aspect when only the first and last song (and to a smaller extent "My City of Ruins") seem to have a lot to do with actual healing leaving so much like "Empty Sky" or "Worlds Apart" to occupy so much of the show. Again, I love this new material and I want to hear it live. I also remember posting some time back that I thought this would be a very rigid, carefully constructed tour and it has been. For the better? Not so sure. This coincides with his second point about when did it become Bruce's job to save our souls? Maybe the media's partially responsible for all of that as well as Bruce. I don't come to Bruce Springsteen for soul healing, rejuvenation, spiritual healing, I come to hear Bruce Springsteen and the best pure rock band going make me forget about my day, my troubles, my fears. On this tour you're almost forced to relive them (like the imminent over memorialization in a few weeks). And don't tell me that we have to face our fears to overcome them. Living in the NY/NJ area you've had no choice but to do that. I don't need Bruce's help. Like Steve said, play "Thundercrack", play "Take 'em as they Come , maybe play "Seaside Bar Song", that type of stuff along with the new stuff. Even switch it around a little more, don't center so much of the show on the same funeral vein (as Steve put it). I agree wholeheartedly. I will disagree with his point on "Glory Days". To me at the Meadowlands it didn't seem like he was pretending or that it was forced. In fact it seemed so loose, along with "Born to Run" and "Thunder Road", that it seemed that Bruce was at his most comfortable during that spot in the show. It almost seemed like there was an internal struggle with all this type of material that he had his chance to be the Bruce of old. His third point was about the show mired in worn out songs and predictability. "Prove it All Night" for me was definitely expected as was "Badlands". I love both songs but come on...eventually those songs stagnate, get old, get tired, etc.. Now matter how much of a fan you are and how many shows you see, it's going to get old. However to the shlub like me who only catches one show and wants to hear "Prove it All Night" or "Badlands" he/she misses out. Then again the Grateful Dead did it night after night after night. So you miss a song, we'll be back around and you might hear it then. And it'll sound fresh as opposed to the fiftieth performance of "Prove It All Night" when that fan gets a worn version (come on Bruce fans, it can happen). I'll partially agree with his point on Bruce wasting the E Street Band. To me the band sounds mature and confident on this new CD. Maybe he's wasting Clarence but that's about it. Clarence has quickly gone from sax man to tambourine and finger clickin' thingy man. The Jersey sound is mostly gone. I suppose it depends on preferences and what you like. If this is E Street Band 2002 it's still good enough for me. But I think Bruce fans in general, while saying "This E Street Band sounds great to me, this is where they want to be today STILL has to long for the days of the glock, the sax, the piano and keyboard WAY up in the mix. Come on, admit it. :-) And his last point was the ticket price and show time. I can pay that price once, maybe twice. But it IS steep. At the Meadowlands I still felt I got 80 dollars worth of show and it was a great show at that. He's not 35 anymore and I understand that, but gee...he seems in far better shape this tour than the last one. I'm sure he could go three hours. I think it goes back to Steve's first point: he's centering so much of this show around the new material. Personally I'd bet that Bruce's is thinking that "Thundercrack" and "Seaside Bar Song" would water down the show. It's a theme show not unlike the "Tunnel" shows. Personally a bit of a mistake in my opinion. Steve, I agree with ya on almost everything you said. To me it doesn't suck, it's just what you happen to be into and all and I more than respect that. The flames'll be comin' my way for sure, my ability to trade for anything Bruce has most likely be diminished but oh well. You read my mind in many instances and I couldn't let ya feel the heat on your own. Brian [text/html attachment deleted] ------------------------------ End of LuckyTown Digest V9 #78 ****************************** ********************************************************************* ** LuckyTown WWW URL ** The LuckyTown FAQ, back issues, web-based subscription/unsubscription, and many other things can be found on the LuckyTown WWW Page: http://www.luckytown.org ** LuckyTown mailing list addresses ** You can send email to go into the next LuckyTown Digest to: luckytown@luckytown.org You can send email to go into the next LuckyTown-Ads Digest to: luckytown-ads@luckytown.org Any questions for the list admin should be emailed to: owner-luckytown@luckytown.org To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@luckytown.org with message body: unsubscribe luckytown-digest To get further information on how to subscribe/unsubscribe/change your subscription address, as well as the other available commands, send email to majordomo@luckytown.org with message body: help ********************************************************************* The contents of this digest are not necessarily approved by the list admin.