From: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org (LuckyTown Digest) To: luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Subject: LuckyTown Digest V9 #84 Reply-To: luckytown@luckytown.org Sender: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Errors-To: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Precedence: bulk LuckyTown Digest Sunday, September 8 2002 Volume 09 : Number 084 NOTE: Sale/trade posts should be emailed to luckytown-ads, *NOT* to luckytown. That includes tix wanted/tix grovels, post them to luckytown-ads, please. Contents: Bruce on Saturday Night Live October 5 ["F Mills" ] Bruce story ["Sean Sennett" ] Re: Rise Up? The Failure of The Rising [] NY, NY Times, Bruce, the Awards. and Saturn........... [OmanIV@aol.com] The Failure of The Rising ["M. Conens" ] Re: recent posts [DuoStudio@aol.com] LTD #82 Rising Failure ["E W" ] The "Failure" of The Rising [JZellers@dhhs.state.nh.us] Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #82 ["Mike Walk" ] Instant Live CDs [Gary Dunaier ] Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #82 [] Ticketchaos in Dordrecht-the Netherlands [Dirk-Willem Poot ] World's Apart - music from the other side of the world? [Andy Strote ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 18:12:01 +0000 From: "F Mills" Subject: Bruce on Saturday Night Live October 5 Subject header says it all. Season opener. Fred _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 19:08:01 +1000 From: "Sean Sennett" Subject: Bruce story Hi, You'll find a new interview with Bruce at www.timeoff.com.au Cheers. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 05:42:17 -0400 From: Subject: Re: Rise Up? The Failure of The Rising Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 01:07:10 -0400 From: mendez@comcast.net Subject: Rise Up? The Failure of The Rising >Let's just look at the titles from the The Rising: > >Waiting on a Sunny Day, Countin on a Miracle, Empty Sky, Lonesome Day, My City >of Ruins, You're Missing > >....certainly not brimming with the optimism and confidence of titles like; >Prove it All Night, Born to Run, No Surrender, Promised Land, Open All Night, >Living Proof. Lets look *beyond* the titles of your example songs, to what they are about. [I'm summarising here, and won't bother quoting songs we are all familiar with. ] Prove it All Night: A dark and at times menacing love song. Born to Run: This place sucks, we're leaving. Compare with My City Of Ruins which says rise up and make it better. No Surrender: We've lost/are losing the passion for life we had when we were younger. Promised Land: Yes, it basically says a better life is possible, but it portrays anger at the protagonists current state. Open All Night: Shift work sucks. Living Proof: Combines optimism with a portrayal of the protaganists unhappiness. Bruces music has always combined the dark with the light, and had a healthy dose of realism. The Rising is no different in this respect. __________________________________________ Sent with ZotMail - http://www.zotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:35:24 EDT From: OmanIV@aol.com Subject: NY, NY Times, Bruce, the Awards. and Saturn........... From the NY Times (by way of Wendyblue) Mob Connections It's not that hard to figure out the connection: STEVEN VAN ZANDT is part of the repertory company of actors in "The Sopranos," and also happens to work with BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN in the E Street Band. That explains why the actor JAMES GANDOLFINI, puffing on a huge Tony Sopranoish cigar, introduced Mr. Springsteen and the band Thursday night at the kickoff of the MTV Video Music Awards. The New York audience colonized Radio City Music Hall, but Mr. Springsteen performed outdoors in front of the cosmic backdrop of the Rose Center for Earth and Space at the American Museum of Natural History. His audience, which included cartoonist GARRY B. TRUDEAU and the museum's president, ELLEN V. FUTTER, cheered, danced, got pelted with rain and buffeted by winds. When the rain caused sound-system static, Mr. Springsteen gazed up at the planetarium and pronounced: "Hey, I think Saturn's crackling!" Johnno in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:41:33 -0700 From: "M. Conens" Subject: The Failure of The Rising I agree with Jon Mendez about The Rising. Sure, an artist has the right and responsibility to put his own emotions into song (or paint or sculpture). But I think it is weakened when an artist tries to speak FOR his audience. To me, Bruce's best work is writing and singing about cars, girls, and rock and roll. Those are things he has lived. But when he sings about the plight of migrants, etc., (Tom Joad) it sounds hollow. Unless he is talking about how his family migrated from NJ to CA. When the guy hollered out "we need you" post 9/11 I, too, doubt he felt Bruce was "needed" to catalog the nation's despair. Perhaps Bruce should have sat on this material for a bit to see how it holds up. I think it's great in terms of capturing the first couple of weeks post 9/11 but, face it, for most Americans (at least here on the West Coast) things are normal. Gas prices haven't shot up, and the war is "over there". This is emphasized when the President tells Americans to do there part by "going shopping and travelling". Maybe Bruce's next cd will be about the fighting spirit, with more uplifting songs. More like those rallying songs we hear our parents talk about that came out during WWII. Just a guess. I think, with Tunnel, Human Touch and Lucky Town, we got probably the best of 'modern Bruce' (married with kids). I remember Billy Joel talking, after he got married to Christie Brinkley, about how he didn't think his fans would go for an album of songs about being married and raising children. I know I wouldn't. I am afraid Bruce's days of singing about cars, girls and rock and roll are pretty much over. And that's too bad because that is what drew me to the Church of Bruce. It's one reason why I have skipped this tour. The cd didn't sound like the soundtrack to a party that I'd want to attend. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 11:31:29 EDT From: DuoStudio@aol.com Subject: Re: recent posts A coupla thoughts about recent threads on the LTD: 1. RUMBLE DOLL: I think is a great album, the flipside of TUNNEL OF LOVE, told from Patti's P.O.V. Listen to it right after TOL, it'll be kinda like a double album (Double Fantasy?). 2. STEVE LEFTRIDGE: All I'm reminded of is Walt Whitman's line (and I'm not 100% sure it's his, and I'm going to paraphrase it), "I am large--I contain contradictions." In other words, re: the LTD/Bruce/adulation vs. criticism ongoing debate, it's ALL valid depending on your point of view/experience. I've always maintained that i love Bruce to death, but i can be his greatest critic as well. A part of me at every bruce show can enjoy the show on its own terms, in-the-moment, while the critical part of my brain is working as well. The song THUNDER ROAD encapsulates one of the problems, if any one song can, that Leftridge brings up: while TR is a classic, and is ALWAYS worth hearing, I just wish Bruce and the band would change the arrangement every few years, instead of playing basically the same arrangement since '78 (which is true for MANY of his hits); in other words, I wish he'd be more like "the New Dylan" by recasting his hits in ways that we can hear them fresh, like Dylan does. TR, if you remember, is especially one of those songs that lends itself to reinterpretation; after all, it's had multiple lives as "Wings for Wheels", as an acoustic number, and as the album cut. What disappointed me most about the '92 tour was NOT that bruce changed bands (I dubbed them "E Street Lite"), but that he gave the new band essentially the SAME arrangements! Bruce, if you're gonna go out with a new band, then play the music in a new way! But he didn't. Yet I still enjoyed a lot of those shows! It's like the oft-heard debate on this digest re: new fans vs. old fans, and the "bandwagon." Well, I first came to be aware of bruce in '75 with BTR, didn't see him 'til '78, and to fans that had been seeing him since the early days, I was a bandwagonner (is that a word?), and to some of them, Bruce had already "sold out" and was "over" when BTR went "mainstream." And you know what? They were "right," in a way, and were perfectly entitled to feel that way (read Penn Jillette's great article from a few digests back)! I respected their p.o.v., but that doesn't mean they were actually RIGHT, because there is no RIGHT and WRONG when it comes to these things! I felt the same way when The RIVER tour hit, when that close-knit DARKNESS fan base I felt at all those '78 shows became bloated with mainstream, drunken "Hungry Heart" fans--and yet fans who came in to bruce at that time consider THAT tour the best and feel critical of the BITUSA bandwagonners! And so it goes, as Linda Ellerbee used to sign-off with... It was ballsy for Leftridge to say what he said, and he's entitled, and we need to respect his P.O.V. and debate it in the spirit I'm trying to allude to. We really ALL love Bruce, but we should ALL be able to entertain ALL manner of debate/discussion/criticism, because WE can take it and I'm sure Bruce can as well. As I wrote in my (infamous?) review of TRACKS for Backstreets magazine, "I won't pull any punches in speaking my mind, Bruce--I trust that someone like yourself, who has demonstrated the utmost integrity throughout his recording and performing career, would expect nothing less from me." --Arlen Schumer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 00:38:58 +0000 From: "E W" Subject: LTD #82 Rising Failure Just a comment/response to Mr. Mendez's remarks in LTD #82. I partially agree in that "The Rising" is a depressing album and, no I don't think it's because Mendez is too sensitive. It does make it difficult to listen to at times. That aside, isn't part of healing both recognizing and acknowledging that there is a tradgedy to begin with? And then, hopefully, the living move on with their lives. Perhaps this should have been the time for a double album. The first about tradgedy and sadness, the second about healing and moving on. But who can write, from the heart, about healing until it's happened? Probably Bruce amongst the least. Give him time and I bet Bruce will produce the album Mr. Mendez needed this time around. After all, "The Rising" came out relatively quickly by Bruce standards and probably still very much colored by the events of 9/11. Be interesting to see the chronological order they were written in. Another thought...there were an awful lot of complaints about too much "happy" music on "Human Touch" and "Lucky Town." That's debatable to start with but I love both of those albums for several reasons including and especially the "happy" themes. Time will tell but I bet Mr. Mendez gets what he's looking for in the end. E. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:10:05 -0400 From: JZellers@dhhs.state.nh.us Subject: The "Failure" of The Rising Jon (Mendez) - I mean no disrespect whatsoever in saying the following: I am a little disturbed by your saying that music is "SUPPOSED" to "MAKE" us happy. It seems to me that music "only" elicits feelings that are there to be elicited. I humbly suggest that if The Rising depresses you, maybe there is something going on that you are not aware of and/or don't want to feel. In any case, my experience tells me that I can't "spit into the face" of everything I don't like; and that grief is a PROCESS, which takes many forms, and twists, and turns. To me, this album is a manifestation of tremendous spirtitual growth on Bruce's part. Anger, denial, and defiance are all part of grieving; and so are depression and sadness. My "City of Ruins" and the album end with "...come on, rise up...", sung collectively by many voices. My own opinion is that Bruce is saying more explicitly in music what he has talked about many times in one way or another: that we all rise and fall together in some fashion. I see the album as an example of and a calling out for compassion. In that spirit, I would only say that if you need happy music, I am not implying in any way that you should be doing anything else. In the end, I guess all I am saying is that, for me, it "ain't no sin" to cry and grieve too. And that, for many people, "reasons to believe" do not come easily - to say the least. While listening to The Rising results in experiencing some difficult feelings for me (along with an awareness of incredible compassion and beauty), by the end of the album I feel cleansed and hopeful. In any case, this train has room for all of us; and I thank you for sharing your reactions to the album publicly. Best Regards, John p.s. It just struck me to say that, in my opinion, "Mary's Place" is a song which celebrates celebrating the life of someone who has died - in a joyous way. I am VERY curious about why you hate it so much; and about why you say you're "not convinced". Just a last minute thought I had. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 18:14:02 -0500 From: "Mike Walk" Subject: Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #82 >Subject: Rise Up? The Failure of The Rising > >"It's a town full of losers >And I'm pulling out of here to win." > >Remember those words? Remember that sentiment? Remember that optimism? Remember >what Bruce Springsteen means? I remembered the other day (more on that later). >Remembered why I fell in love with the songs. Remembered why I fell in love >with the "Sprit in the Night." Because that is what it is all about. Spirit. >Bruce's meaning as an artist...at least to me was about the undeterminable >human spirit. Just so happens it's the same spirit that made this country what >it is. That not at all mythical "American Way." Yes, that IS what Bruce was >about...at least to me. Until "The Rising." > >Let's just look at the titles from the The Rising: > >Waiting on a Sunny Day, Countin on a Miracle, Empty Sky, Lonesome Day, My City >of Ruins, You're Missing > >...certainly not brimming with the optimism and confidence of titles like; >Prove it All Night, Born to Run, No Surrender, Promised Land, Open All Night, >Living Proof. > That's because those songs weren't written less than one year after 3000 people were slaughtered by the worst terrorist act ever on American soil. Nevertheless, how positive is "Straight Time"?, or anything of "Nebraska" or "Ghost Of Tom Joad" for that matter? How about "Souls Of The Departed"? >On "The Rising" Bruce's characters are lonely, nothings. They sit around >waiting and hoping and praying for a miracle. They look out at emptiness with >nothing but teardrops in a city of ruins. This is the antithesis of everything >Bruce has meant to me as an artist. In Bruce's work the theme that has carried >throughout his work is that people find reasons to believe. They spit in the >face of the Badlands... where it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive. They >don't retreat. They don't surrender. Don't overreact to an artist's response to tragedy. You're pretty quick on the trigger there. You seem ready to write Bruce off, right here during his triumphant return to prominence. > >I had my "epiphany" after reading the August 18th Week in Review section of the >New York Times lead article "The American Way of Death Becomes America's way of >Life" by Jack Hitt. Hitt's article about how this country memorializes its dead >was filled with comments like; > >"Memorials used to be simple ways in which the natural sorrow of death was >transformed into hope for the future. They were places where people were >reminded of a past loss by dedicating themselves to some other purpose." > >"...the difficult work all great memorials attempt, binding the meaning between >two temporal realms-that they died and why we live." > >Reading this I realized this is the failure of "The Rising." Bruce too has >changed the way he memorializes life. When that now famous inspiration yelled >out his car window to Bruce "Hey we need you.." it wasn't because he wanted >Bruce to depress him with more death, prayers, funerals and tears. I maintain >it was because he wanted, err expected Bruce to write songs filled with >characters that had the determination, confidence and spirit to overcome this >tragedy. Characters that found their inspiration not in death and dying but in >living. > You mean songs like "Happy" and "Better Days", or even "Man's Job"? I think you are a bit off, on your review. Although you correctly admit thet "The Rising" is his best work in 20 years, you say this after pointing out the ways "The Rising" has "failed". I'm at a loss. - -Ekimklaw ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:29:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Dunaier Subject: Instant Live CDs > Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 18:07:43 -0400 > From: "theboss" > Subject: Instant Live CDs > > . . . I would much rather pay bruce a bit and > get a soundboard of the show i just walked out > of than wait and get a shitty mp3 version off > the web. It does not seem like rocket science, > even if only 18,000 cd's sell for each show played > it would equal alot of dough. Hear hear! Especially if the sound quality is equal to the "Live In New York City" album. People WANT this stuff. They're GETTING it, albeit by secret devious means (as far as Bruce's management is concerned). Especially with today's technology, I can't see any reason why the Springsteen camp DOESN'T do this for their fans... both the ones who want the show as a souvenir and those who want the show because they couldn't get in. "Only" 18,000 discs sold, at let's say $15 per unit (assuming spartan packaging: date, venue, set list and nothing else, but in a jewel box please), $15 x 18,000 = $270,000. If you take out reasonable and legitimate expenses, that's still a heck of a lot of money that can go to a food bank or other charity... another way Bruce can honor his committment to serve. Gary Dunaier ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A poem entitled "Untitled", is NOT in fact untitled For is not "Untitled", itself, a title? "Untitled": a title oft used by writers too lazy to entitle. ("Untitled", by Gary Dunaier) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 11:03:42 -0400 From: Subject: Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #82 RE: Brad's "Instant Live CD's" -- and 'Lessons from THE WHO' ---- I had this same 'cosmic cognition' ..ok, a thought , the day of the recent WHO concert in Detroit, 8/23/02. The WHO , in conjunction with ...themusic.com & Eel Pie ( Pete Townshends own related) decision was made to offer "official sanctioned soundboard recordings" of the concert that either "one had attended" or at least hoped to attend but was not able --due to variety of reasons. So I thought, 'how cool' is this ?? The WHO indicate that money obtained for these recordings will go to a youth charity of their choice etc etc. So, ...(continued thinking) .. geez, Bruce & Co. could do this couldn't they, ... He promotes the "the local ... is out there collecting, help em' out & appreciate the help" ; why not put out a soundboard of each show and direct proceeds or portions thereof to such and whatever needs to go into productions of . Just good food for thought ya know -- keeps everybody happy, gets funds coming in to "help the cause" , fans get something they always want with the recording, ... sounds like a "win-win" situation. John in Ann Arbor, MI ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 05:28:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Dirk-Willem Poot Subject: Ticketchaos in Dordrecht-the Netherlands The place is the GWK/ticketservice Dordrecht, the Netherlands. The time 08.00 AM last Saturday. When the shop lady handed out little numbered tickets I got #6 (out of 34 or so). At 10 o'clock they started feverishly pulling tickets out of a printer, a total of 6 pairs of 2. I was set! I was going to the show. I was bloody happy. Until the lady at the counter informed us at 10.15 that the show was sold out, and that they were able to sell 3 pairs of tickets. When the surprised number 4,5 and 6 (me) pointed out the 3 other pairs we were informed that those tickets were 'for themselves'. Well not really themselves, they didn't like Bruce, but just for a friend. When we pointed out that it wasn't fair that those friends were probably still sleeping, where as we had camped out there since 3 AM, they couldn't care less. Anyway, I have no tickets and am grovelling on all fours, hoping for a kind soul with 2 extra dutch tickets. Alsjeblieft, help me! Kind regards Dirk-Willem __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:17:00 -0230 From: "tjryan" Subject: Rising Video? Can anyone tell me if they've ever seen a video fore The Rising single. According to a friend of mine he says he saw in Entertainment Weekly that MTV and VH1 are asking for one and have tons of requests for it but Springsteen's camp have not yet delivered a video. I haven't seen one and if, indeed, there isn't one I am shocked. Tony ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 22:24:25 -0400 From: Andy Strote Subject: World's Apart - music from the other side of the world? Hi, Anyone there who could help me find something by Asif Ali Khan that is similar in feeling and intensity to what we hear on World's Apart? Time to get my ears bigger.... Andy - -- You always got to be prepared But you never know for what "Sugar Baby" - Bob Dylan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 09:16:31 EDT From: OmanIV@aol.com Subject: Re: LuckyTown Digest V9 #81 In a message dated 9/1/02 5:53:36 PM, Jon Mendez writes: << In it's own right that list stands with Bruce's greatest work. >> Thank you, Jon, an excellent selection, a great letter, I can only add my vote towards the Darkness Double. An album, in the original concenception of the idea, is a buncha songs you write since the last one. In theory, it reflects "where you are" at that point in your life. Altho there are naysayers who would suggest that "a walk thru the ocean of most souls would scarcely get your feet wet", most of us are complex creatures, and probably don't have one precise "world-view" (for lack of a better word.) which covers everything at one time. And so an album, can reflect different ideas and themes and still be cohesive. I'm sure Bruce's life at that time was anything but a complete theme. You have good days, you have bad days, and days like today that called on account of rain. (As Joe Cocker would say, "I Can Stand a Little Rain") Johnno in rainy NJ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 17:31:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Dunaier Subject: 39 Euros?! > Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 11:24:38 +0200 > From: "CS" > Subject: Berlin - Help !!!! > > 1) It seems that Paris has released a few more tickets > (behind-the-stage ones): check www.ticketnet.fr (39 euros) Only 39 Euros?! That's cheap, isn't it? Or am I missing something here? When I got my drop line ticket for the MSG 7/1/00 show, I paid $67.50 for my behind the stage ticket -- so 39 Euros seems like a GREAT bargain. (N.B.: For simplicity's sake I generally convert the two currencies at equal value, $1 US = 1 Euro, although I know they do fluctuate; as of of 9/3/02 00:16:28 GMT $1 US was actually worth 1.016 Euros and 1 Euro was actually worth $0.984 US, but we don't have to be technical.) Gary Dunaier ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "But Archie, I thought it was a RELIGIOUS movie... 'Cardinal Knowledge'!" - Edith Bunker __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of LuckyTown Digest V9 #84 ****************************** ********************************************************************* ** LuckyTown WWW URL ** The LuckyTown FAQ, back issues, web-based subscription/unsubscription, and many other things can be found on the LuckyTown WWW Page: http://www.luckytown.org ** LuckyTown mailing list addresses ** You can send email to go into the next LuckyTown Digest to: luckytown@luckytown.org You can send email to go into the next LuckyTown-Ads Digest to: luckytown-ads@luckytown.org Any questions for the list admin should be emailed to: owner-luckytown@luckytown.org To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@luckytown.org with message body: unsubscribe luckytown-digest To get further information on how to subscribe/unsubscribe/change your subscription address, as well as the other available commands, send email to majordomo@luckytown.org with message body: help ********************************************************************* The contents of this digest are not necessarily approved by the list admin.