From: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org (LuckyTown Digest) To: luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Subject: LuckyTown Digest V9 #114 Reply-To: luckytown@luckytown.org Sender: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Errors-To: owner-luckytown-digest@luckytown.org Precedence: bulk LuckyTown Digest Sunday, December 29 2002 Volume 09 : Number 114 NOTE: Sale/trade posts should be emailed to luckytown-ads, *NOT* to luckytown. That includes tix wanted/tix grovels, post them to luckytown-ads, please. Contents: Springsteen Fact or Fiction? (Long) [Jim Mitchell ] Release Live version of Dancing in the Dark ["Zur, John Francis, JR (John] Big News From CBS ["Wands, Megan" ] Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 00:40:06 -0000 ["O'Hearn, Chris" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 00:40:07 -0600 From: Jim Mitchell Subject: Springsteen Fact or Fiction? (Long) Below are several beliefs, mentalities and attitudes that I have noticed springing up on various internet forums over the past several years about Bruce, his tours and his releases. I find myself falling for some of these, while others are just plain annoying and obnoxious. For an artist who does his best to create a down-to-earth image in his music, there sometimes exists an elitism among his fans that can be hard to take. I'll be interested to hear what others think, if anyone cares My arguments are very subjective, and may be no more a reflection of reality than the "myths" that I address- they may be as inaccurate and as based on stereotypes as the ones that I'm trying to address. Don't bother to flame me with "what does it matter to you if people think this" type replies- I don't lose sleep over any of this. Sometimes encountering this stuff makes me lose interest in RMAS or LTD, but I always come back. I'm secure in my passion for Bruce's music, and none of the good or bad that I encounter over the internet could change that. It's just something that has interested me lately and I collected some of my thougts in this rather long message today while I was off work with a sick child. Myth #1: The vast majority of Springsteen's audience is focused in the Northeast portion of the United States, especially the New Jersey/NYC area, and in a handful of exceptionally large cities like Chicago and LA. While any city in the world might have some fans, those numbers are insignificant compared to the fans here. When touring, Bruce should satiate these fans first before venturing out into other parts of the US and the world. Also, Bruce puts on his best performances here and saves rarities and treats for these fans because people in other cities are much less likely to know and appreciate such songs. Any performance outside of this area is simply an obligation that Bruce hopes to get out of the way so he can return to the fans who truly appreciate him. Well, I think it goes without saying that this isn't true- the European shows have proven that. I mean, aren't you going to find larger numbers of ANY type of people in a densely populated city like New York? More left-handed people, more right-handed people, more smart people, more stupid people, more people who believe the world is flat, and more Springsteen fans? Certainly Springsteen has an exceptionally loyal fanbase in and near his homestate- no one can dispute that. But just because other cities around the world can't compete with this larger than life following shouldn't negate the thousands of fans who live there and turn out to see his shows and buy his albums. People cite empty seats in many cities outside of the Northeast- that's certainly something noticeable on this tour, but I believe it is related to factors other than simply a lack of a fanbase in that particular city (more on that later). And to suggest that people in the mid-west or the south or wherever won't know or appreciate songs that don't didn't appear on Great Hits? That's so insulting it's not even worth discussing. And it's a mystery to me why some people really want to relegate Springsteen to the status of regional artist- I guess if I lived in his part of the country I'd want to do the same thing. Hey- New Jersey may have given him his start, but the rest of us pushed him into superstar status... (Oddly enough, when I've talked about this on other mesage boards I've been accused of slamming New York. I don't mean to come across that way at all- sticking up for your small corner of the world does not make you against some other person's part of the world.) Myth #2: The typical Springsteen fan sees him multiple times on any given tour and regularly travels to see him perform when he is not in their hometown. Bruce should cater setlists with this in mind so that people don't get suffer burn out from hearing the same songs performed over and over again. Certainly SOME fans do this, and Springsteen does seem to attract a more devoted (some say obsessive) audience than some artists. I've seen him seven times in the past 3 years, only two of those times at home (in St. Louis). However, to suggest that most fans are willing/able to do this is a stretch. Regardless of income, I find it hard to believe that most people with average responsibilities can pack up numerous times throughout the typical length of a tour and see shows at will. That's not to suggest that people who can do this are lacking in leading a responsible life- I refuse to get into the "get a life" mentality. There are far worse ways to spend your life, and you're not accountable to anyone but your loved ones as to how you do that. But let's not kid ourselves that this is an easy thing to do for most people, no matter how badly they want it. I can only imagine that the large majority of people in attendance at a show are seeing him that one time only, and if they've travelled it is only because that city was the closest stop he was making to their home. Regarding shaping setlists to please the fan who sees multiple shows- I have to doubt that Bruce is changing songs during the second leg to cater to the guy who has heard the piano version of "Incident" 8 times now and is sick of it. I really believe he does a good job of balancing a standard setlist of songs he feels need to be heard with some rarities and mix-ups to please all sorts of fans. But I think the last thing he wants to become right now is a cult artist playing to largely the same group of fans over and over again. Myth #3: Most Springsteen fans have a large collection of bootlegs. Therefore, any live release should take this into consideration and include only songs that were not readily available on boots. Again, SOME fans do have bootlegs. However, despite the wonderful explosion of recordings distributed over the internet, I believe it's still a rather obscure form of music. It does take a certain amount of time, effort and knowledge to make or even obtain them. One of the more obnoxious things I remember reading about LINYC was the mentality of "I'm not buying it because I've heard all of those songs on boots". Well, first of all so much for supporting your favorite artist. Secondly, the stupid structuring of that CD aside, I'd still rather have the sound quality of the official release than any bootleg I've ever heard. I also remember hearing in response to discussions about Bruce's lack of new material- "Well, we did get 'Code of Silence', 'Further On Up the Road' and the holiday shows." Excuse me, but WE did not get those things. The relative handful of fans who were in attendance at those concerts and/or who had bootlegs with them on it got those songs, but most of us did not. While I understand why an artist like Springsteen creates a market for bootlegs, and certainly have recently enjoyed my share of them, I do not believe that they substitute for official releases and they are certainly not easily accessible to most fans (at least not yet, although the internet may change that). Most fans have heard his live music only in person or on a handful of officially release live recordings. Myth #4: $75 is a reasonable price to pay for a ticket given what you get for the price and in comparison to what other artists are charging. If you want to get bad enough, you'll come up with the money. Well, $75 in the pit is certainly cheaper than the $250 for front row McCartney tickets. And a low-end Mercedes is cheap compared to a Rolls Royce. But I ain't driving either one of them. $75 is expensive for a concert ticket, even for Bruce Springsteen! Prices for many of the same seats were half that just two years ago! No matter how badly you need or want something, you eventually start questioning your purchase of it if the price increases in a manner that seems disproportionate! A couple buying two tickets combined with service charges, parking, babysitting, meals, maybe a hotel runs up to nearly $250! I don't know about anyone else, but I don't drop that kind of money casually for an evening out! Do I have the money in the bank? Well, sure- it's not going to bankrupt me or starve my kids. But I know many people, again irregardless of income, who could not/would not spend that kind of money for a rock concert, no matter how badly they wanted to see it. It's too bad because I think this more than any other factor is causing empty seats in many arenas. The concert scene is pricing itself out of an audience. Too bad that's not likely to change, because they're still making money. But you could charge $100,000 per ticket and probably find ten people in any given city who could afford it. You've made a miilion dollars right there, but you've only played to ten people! I don't think that this is what Bruce has in mind. Hopefully the recent lowering of some tickets in certain cities is a reconsideration of this absurd price. Tom Petty in Rolling Stone recently said that he charges at most $61 per ticket (I think he went as low as $20) and still makes a fortune at each show. I'll say it again- $75 is a lot of money to pay for a concert ticket, and I think it is responsible for thinning out Bruce's audience. Let's see how many shows even NYC can sell out this time around at those prices... Myth #5: Like the Pope, Bruce Springsteen is infallible and any artistic move he makes (or doesn't make) should be accepted without question. You are not a real fan if you complain about The Boss. Let's face it- prior to The Rising, a lot of us thought that we'd seen the end of Bruce's new music and that any performances would be limited to things like the Holiday shows (see #2 for my thoughts on getting to those shows). In hindsight, I don't know why we were so pessimistic given Bruce's assurances that he was dedicated to creating music with the band, but it was pretty frustrating that we hadn't heard anything new from him in the better part of a decade. Even though our worries were for nothing (or maybe quite valid if you don't like the new album), we weren't wrong for expressing them. Bruce Springsteen moves at a frustratingly slow pace, and it's ok to point that out. That is not one of my favorite things about him. While that doesn't diminish his previous works, it sometimes makes it hard to maintain your interest waiting for a new album. And while I enjoyed LINYC on CD and DVD, I think that his choices in releasing live albums are questionable. There is clearly a strong desire among his fans to get as much live material as possible- that's arguably where his true legacy lies, and it's a little sad that it is so poorly documented in offical form. Would it be so difficult to release an entire concert, or even a series of them from both historic shows and current tours? Hopefully the current trend of live albums from artists like Pearl Jam, Dave Matthews and the Dead will make cut-and-paste jobs like 75-85 (which I love) and LINYC obsolete. Other weird decisions: releasing the Lonesome Day single in limited parts of the world; choices of b-sides; showing the Barcelona MTV concert only in Europe. Questioning and complaining about these things does not make one less of a fan. Wouldn't the internet be a boring place if all we talked about was our unquestioning adoration of Bruce? Myth #6: A concert must be sold to capacity to be considered a success, and Bruce should never make another appearance in any city that can't achieve this. I'll admit it was a little weird seeing empty seats in St. Louis this year- we've never had a problem filling most of, if not selling out, an arena for Bruce. But as I've said, I think that's more a reflection of the price and of other factors than of any particular city's fanbase. Given the economy and the populations of many midsize cities, I don't think it's reasonable to expect every one of them to sell-out a 20,000 seat hockey arena. And the whole concept of "sell-out" is relative. I noticed statistics taken from Billboard indicated approximately 11,000 seats sold in Kansas City and 14,000 seats in St. Louis. Two mid-western cities roughly the same size with similar economies. Yet KC was labeled "sold out" while St. Louis is still cited as one of the worst turn-outs in Springsteen history. First of all, how can 14,000 tickets sold to enthusiastic fans be considered a failure? Even 10,000 for a non-pop artist who gets no radio play is pretty good in a mid-sized city. Second, it seems to me that this is all relative to the size of the arena- Kemper in KC must have been configured for 11,000 seats while Savvis in STL was listed as having nearly 18,000. If Bruce is concned about playing to empty seats (his performance never reflects that) then hopefully he'll consider changing to smaller venues, maybe with multi-night stands in 8,000 seat theaters. Maybe I just have no concept of the economics, but I can't view any of these numbers as a complete failure. I hope that his ego doesn't prevent him from returning to cities that couldn't fill the rather arbitrary number of seats in their particular arenas. Again, I don't think that even a concert with as "few" as 10,000 people is anything to dismiss. I guess you could argue that the same amount of time, effort and money spent to entertain those 10,000 could be spent on 20,000 in another city- you'd make more money and please more people. Still, it doesn't seem to be his style to focus only on the largest metropolises in the world (although I guess that's all relative, since there are still major cities that never get shows) and I trust that we'll see him back. Maybe not in 2003, but hopefully for another tour... [text/html attachment deleted] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 14:21:56 -0500 From: "Zur, John Francis, JR (John)" Subject: Release Live version of Dancing in the Dark Given that MTV and VH1 aren't really playing the Lonesome Day video - Bruce and team should consider releasing a live version of Dancing in the Dark - both as a video and as a B-side to the next single - I think a lot of people would enjoy this updated version... John Z ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:35:19 -0500 From: "Wands, Megan" Subject: Big News From CBS CBS is going to be broadcasting a Bruce Special titled: Bruce Springsteen Live Across America. Look for it either 2/26/03 or 3/4/03. The network is looking for an entitlement sponsor. I find it surprising as Bruce has always shunned ad supported ventures (ie - Chrysler). Anyone have any thoughts? Megan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 00:40:06 -0000 From: "O'Hearn, Chris" Subject: Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 00:40:06 -0000 Hi Everyone. This was in Sydneys Daily Telegraoh today. Great news for those that got them!! Cheers Chris Bruce shows who's the boss PROOF solid that Bruce Springsteen is still The Boss, with tickets to his three Australian shows selling out in a single day. Local promoters of the tour reported that the 43,000 tickets to his Sydney gig at the SCG on March 22 next year were scooped up within hours of going on sale. It was the same story in Brisbane and Melbourne, with a national total of over 100,000 tickets - ranging in price from $88 to $152 - gone by the end of trading. Sadly for those who missed out no more dates are expected to be added to the E-Street Band itinerary. Chris O'Hearn, Marketing & A&R Manager, Country Capitol Records Australia. E-Mail - chris.ohearn@emimusic.com Fax - 02 9908 0600 www.emimusic.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:25:59 -0500 From: "Gene Lazo" Subject: Pit Boss I got to see the Carolina shows (Greensboro, Charlotte, and Columbia), once in the pit, once in the seats, and once on the floor at the rail. It doesn't matter where you sit/stand apparently -- Bruce loves to blow through here like a rocking hurricane. I wrote a column about my pit experience in Greensboro as a prelude to the Charlotte show for Creative Loafing here. Unfortunately, the article got "edited" to reflect an attitude of "nobody wants to read about the admission rigamarole". Such is life. What follows is my original column When tickets for the Charlotte Coliseum Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band concert (Sunday night December 8 at 7:30) went on sale last August 17, buyers found a new option for their $75. Along with the usual reserved seats in the bowl area of the arena, Ticketmaster offered something called "Standing Room Main Floor No Seats", aka General Admission. Standing room used to be regarded as the least desirable ticket a promoter would sell in an effort to cram in as many paying customers as the fire marshals would allow. The GA tickets for the Springsteen show, however, are actually premium admission to the floor. This has been a fairly common practice in Europe over the years but is one that has been largely unavailable in the United States since the late 1970's when situations ranging from nagging patron discomfort to outright fatal tragedy led to the discontinuance of the practice. American bands were largely envious of the looser, party-like atmosphere generated in Europe. They longed to recreate the vibrancy of the smaller venue mosh pits from the punk and alternative worlds while throttling some of the mayhem that could prove dangerous in an arena. When U2 used festival seating with great success on its last US tour, Springsteen decided it was worth a try. As you would expect, admission to the floor is on a first-come, first-served basis. There is an added twist to this, however. To control the potential of a deadly crush of people, the floor is divided into 2 sections. The bulk of the 3000 or so GA patrons will be in the back part of the floor while approximately the front 25 feet closest to the stage (nicknamed "The Pit") is reserved for the first 300 or so people on line. As you might imagine, the most fanatical start lining up pretty early to get into The Pit. This system tends to discourage those folks going to a concert strictly to "be seen" from clogging up the high-energy floor area, which is why bands like it so much; the most rabid fans are part of the party mix. I had somewhat of a bitter aftertaste in my mouth from my festival seating experiences dating back to the70's, but I figured for Bruce, I'd give it another shot. I managed to score a GA ticket for the November 16 Springsteen Greensboro, NC show. I left my house for the 7:30pm show at about 6am Saturday morning. The rain that would be a near constant companion for the weekend started just as I walked out my front door. I got to Greensboro Coliseum at about 8am and searched around the rather rambling complex for the line. I finally found the line staging area just off the Coliseum property on Patterson Street. I joined a couple of hundred people already there who were in the process of a 'roll call'. In an attempt to manage the waiting and minimize the mayhem, a fan-organized process has been established. In short, you show up at a staging area, get a number from the line managers, then show up again for each roll call that is held at various intervals. The task of GA line management for Springsteen's The Rising Tour has been taken on by a couple of fans who have bought tickets and traveled (at their own expense) to every US show on the current tour. Bill Daverne, Ted Brych and Todd Draper are the principles of what has been nicknamed by some 'Bill and Ted's Excellent Pit Adventure'. I spoke with Bill Daverne before the Greensboro show about how it all works. "Running the lines is simply a means to ensure that everyone is treated fairly and physical risks from pushy individuals are minimized. People in the lines want to know what is going to happen next and I see that as a major role for line management folks -- ensuring people are informed so they know why they are in line and when they absolutely need to be present. Once a list reflecting a line is started it is administered full time until the line is admitted into the arena "Of course, you can show up at some venues and find out that a building doesn't have a plan on how to handle the GA pit. In some cases they simply ask for advice, but in others they have had bad experiences with other fan lines and want to downplay any line or list and whomever is running it. We show these folks that a properly run line benefits all." At Greensboro, I had number 217 written on my wet hand with a Sharpie marker at 8:12am. I was told that the next check in would occur at 10am, which meant I could get out of the rain for nearly 2 hours. Promptly at 10, the next check in took place and any fan not showing up had their name crossed off the list, which by now had grown to number 238. Because of the rain, we were told we did not have to check in again until 1pm, which gave me plenty of time to check into my hotel and grab some lunch. When I got back to the staging area at about 12:30, I went to see how close to the magic number of 300 we had gotten; it stood at 289. At 12:41, the man on the bubble, number 300, put his name on the list. The next check in was to be at 2:30 and we were told at that time we would be lead over to the Coliseum for the start of the 'official' line. As promised, we were lined up and checked in right on time then lead over in a long single file line to the Coliseum where we were provided with a place to wait (thankfully out of the rain) until we were to be admitted to the arena at about 5:30. We had 2 more roll calls while we waited, which helped to weed out a handful of people who tried to cut into the line. At 5:30, the line began to move and, after checking for our numbers the arena personnel gave us our wristbands, one for the floor and one for the pit, as we were let into the arena. By about 6:15 or so, the regular GA people were let in. All in all, what could have been a chaotic affair was very systematic and fair. Once in the pit, what looks like a lot of people outside is actually very intimate inside. While people do pack in pretty tight by the stage (I was about 4 feet in front of Clarence Clemmons' mike stand), after going through a collective experience, 99% of the people were all very civil. Plus, remember, the worst you can possibly be is 25 feet away! At 8:14, almost exactly 12 hours after getting my number, Bruce and band took the stage. The experience of being that close made the long wait worthwhile; I felt like I was 20 years old at the Capitol Theatre in Passaic all over again, which was the last time I was that close to the Boss. From the first verse of the opening song ("The Rising"), everyone in The Pit was dancing and singing along with Springsteen making an effort to interact with everyone in the place, from those of us a couple of feet away to those folks way up in the rafters we in the pit had forgotten about. Bruce and the band worked their way through old and new material and Springsteen even treated us to a solo piano version of "Incident on 57th Street," the story of Spanish Johnny and Puerto Rican Jane most of us old Springsteen diehards had long since given up hope of ever hearing again. After over an hour and a half of hard, honest rock and roll he closed out the main portion of the show with an amazingly moving version of "Into The Fire". Of course, with Springsteen, "closing out the main portion of the show" simply means that there is still an hour of music to go. His first encore consisted of a rocked over version of Dancing in the Dark (sans Courtney Cox in The Pit), Glory Days, and the classic Born to Run with all the lights turned on. The "last" encore consisted of My City of Ruins (dedicated to the local food bank), an astringent version of Born in the USA dedicated as a prayer for peace, and the uplifting Land of Hope and Dreams. In a normal show, this would be it, but as a treat to particularly good crowds, Springsteen will sometimes through in Ramrod. To give you an idea of how good Springsteen thought the crowd was in Greensboro, Ramrod went on for over 10 minutes, complete with Springsteen cajoling people that it was time to "go back to their hotel rooms and eat some fried chicken and order some porrrr-nogg-raphy". Each time Bruce tried to convince the band that it was quitting time however, Little Steven would shake his head, wag his finger and say "No". In mock exasperation, Bruce finally asked Steve, "Well, what time is it then?", leading to a frozen pause, an exultation from Little Steven proclaiming that "It's Boss Time", and a rock and roll monsoon that rivaled the storm outside which swamped the arena, leaving thousands wet from sweat, tired from dancing, and filled with the joy that only rock and roll can bring. Boss-time comes to Charlotte this Sunday. - -- Gene Lazo -- [text/html attachment deleted] ------------------------------ End of LuckyTown Digest V9 #114 ******************************* ********************************************************************* ** LuckyTown WWW URL ** The LuckyTown FAQ, back issues, web-based subscription/unsubscription, and many other things can be found on the LuckyTown WWW Page: http://www.luckytown.org ** LuckyTown mailing list addresses ** You can send email to go into the next LuckyTown Digest to: luckytown@luckytown.org You can send email to go into the next LuckyTown-Ads Digest to: luckytown-ads@luckytown.org Any questions for the list admin should be emailed to: owner-luckytown@luckytown.org To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@luckytown.org with message body: unsubscribe luckytown-digest To get further information on how to subscribe/unsubscribe/change your subscription address, as well as the other available commands, send email to majordomo@luckytown.org with message body: help ********************************************************************* The contents of this digest are not necessarily approved by the list admin.